SieMak Podcasts
Welcome to SieMak Podcasts. A family of podcasts of different sorts for different tastes.
Ancasts - brings two long time friends, Anthony & Andrew, that want to get into your head. Tony and Prof. Drew talk about everything from their kids, tech, pop culture, sports....really everything. It's like sitting with them in a room, a car, a pub. You'll find yourself wanting to hang out with them all the time. This is your opportunity to hang with them once a week. Do it.
Cause I Wanna Know - brings stories of people. In depth conversations that peel back what makes them tick and what has inspired them and moved them in the direction that they have forged.
Generation (XZ) Pop - is a father & daughter, Tony & Makayla, that talks all things pop culture from a perspective of Generation X and Z.
The Shellee & Kelly Podcast - brings another duo. The ladies talk wine, their book club for two, tv shows and much more.
We hope you enjoy one of these many options. Thanks for your ear hole!
SieMak Podcasts
CIWK Ep. 12 - Breaking Chains: Angelica's Story of Resilience and Hope Amidst Devastating Adversity
Imagine the strength required to rise above a life as a migrant worker, escape an abusive family, and break free from a suffocating tradition. It's a tale of courage and resilience found in our own Angelica, a woman who dared to dream of a better life amidst her struggles. As the one of the youngest of 13 children, born into a family of migrant workers from Guadalajara, Mexico, Angelica's life was far from easy. Yet, even as she faced verbal and physical abuse, she held onto the hope she found in the world depicted in shows like The Brady Bunch and Disney movies.
Follow us as we journey through Angelica's life, fraught with harsh realities, yet illuminated by extraordinary moments. We delve into the complexities of her upbringing, her struggle with identity, and the heart-wrenching incident of her sister being sold off. Despite the shadows of her past, Angelica harbored dreams of a better life, and with a bold move, she decided to step away from her family's migrant worker lifestyle.
Her story is one of hope, faith, and the indomitable resilience of the human spirit. From narrowly escaping a forced marriage, to finding love in a church, Angelica's journey is nothing short of inspiring. Listen to her remarkable story of escaping the chains of suppression, the challenges of finding a place to call home, and the road to acceptance and love. Tune in and let Angelica's story inspire you to believe in the power of hope and the resilience of the human spirit.
Hi, welcome back to, because I want to know. Today we are continuing our talk with Adriana and Anna, but today we have Angelica, which is their mom. You want to say hi, hello. I guess, I'm introducing you.
Speaker 3:I guess you are.
Speaker 1:Instead of. And then we have Esther too.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Esther.
Speaker 1:So this is just a kind of it's kind of almost like Star Wars, where they started in the middle. Now we're going to go back to the beginning, so to Angelica's life. So where did you? I'm just going to get right into it. So we talked a little bit before and I want to start with your parents. So where did your parents come from? Where did you grow up?
Speaker 3:primarily, Okay, so what I know, my parents are from Guadalajara, mexico, both of them, and they had eight children no, seven children, I'm number eight, I guess in Mexico, in Tijuana, that's where they were located, and my mom and my dad found out that if you had a child in the United States, that that would help for people to get legalized. And so this was. It came down the grapevine through you know word of mouth, and so they decided to send my mom to Los Angeles Los Angeles for those people that don't know Spanish and she stayed with my aunt, who lived there until she had me, and, according to my mom, I was born at seven months premature, and as soon as I was able to get out of the hospitals, she then crossed me over back to Mexico hidden in her tummy or her shirt so that she would go back to her children, who she left in Tijuana and trying to get them organized, to then cross over to the United States.
Speaker 3:to, you know, start life and figure out life. Because, it was really hard having now eight children no money, no jobs and being able to support them. So they knew, coming to the United States they were going to be able to live a better life, or they thought, and support the children. And when was this? What year was this? I was born in 1974. Okay, so just the year after me.
Speaker 1:Oh, march 73. So, okay, so, um, so when? So did they? They made that trip then they hauled your parents, gathered all of you up and then where did you land in to go that they go back to Los Angeles, or Well, I was very little so I don't remember, but according to my mom's stories.
Speaker 3:they kind of traveled to different places, different states. I know we landed in Ontario, Oregon, which is one of the primary states or places that we always ended up every year. Follow the work, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do I remember that you were in Arizona at some point? To so was there a significant amount of time there in Arizona yearly and I'm only asking because, that's what I remember. Correct.
Speaker 3:So, um my, we were migrant workers, and so my dad would pick up. We would all be in a truck and we would move from city or was from state to state, following the agriculture work. Right Sure.
Speaker 3:And so, yes, we ended up in Arizona at one point because of work. It was very, I don't know, scarce in certain states, so we had to figure out something else and my dad would find work from word of mouth, so, speaking to his brothers or friends, and they would kind of share information oh look, come over to this state. We have work over here, lots of money, and so my dad would just pick up and go with the kids.
Speaker 1:Right, and how long, I mean, you remember this right. So he'd been doing this for a while, yes, all my life.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Your whole life.
Speaker 3:We never had a stable home. Basically we would at sometimes or when we would move we would live within the cars, like until we got like a little little hut or a little place that the farm workers would provide for us. Right, or just a little space for us to provide A lot of the owners from the I don't know what you would call them the fields, yeah, from the migrant workers, or they would have like little houses that they would build to house all the people that were coming to work temporarily.
Speaker 1:I think that's still kind of the case, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Is that I?
Speaker 1:think I saw like on a I don't know, it was like a documentary or something.
Speaker 2:Something normal they have like now.
Speaker 1:It's just like a big bunk beds and stuff like that. I think it was a thing during COVID, because they were worried about COVID and workers and stuff like that. Anyways, it was something I was going to ask. So what's the age range between your first sibling down to you?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 1:We don't need to go through all of them, but just like the oldest to you.
Speaker 3:Well, there's how many of you guys that? Well, I'm number eight, my brother before me, he's two years older than me, and then my sister, matilda, is three years older than me and I'll be almost 15 next year, so you can kind of do the math there. And then from there it's my brother, gabriel, he is four years older than me, and Guillermina, stella is eight years older than me, which is my sister, the oldest sister. So I think my brother, my oldest brother, is about 60.
Speaker 1:You're right, right 10 years older. So you just all. So you grew up, and so all of you, all eight of you plus your parents, would just work.
Speaker 3:She's eight, out of how many kids 11.
Speaker 1:Oh, 11. Oh, you're eight, so you have.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my mom had 13 children. Oh two died Okay, and 11 are still living.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, so you're eight. Yes, so you actually have. Okay, I misunderstood, I'm sorry. So you do you actually have a couple of younger? Siblings, but it was still all of you, all of you just worked and worked. Yeah, what, what? I'm assuming that was just the case back then. Just growing up into the 80s family, like lots of families, a lot of migrant families, did that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's all I knew. I thought everybody was doing it. I remember working in the fields and seeing school buses cross. You know, pass by and children running into the school buses and I would be desiring to be one of them. I'm wanting to be one of those children going into the school bus to go to school.
Speaker 1:So you're not getting a whole lot there, you're just pretty much working. So it's like state to state. You may see some stuff in between places, but not a lot. That's like your world, like this real insular world of just migrant worker, isolated exactly.
Speaker 3:Work, go home, don't go out at all, stay in home, and the homes are literally the size of this room that we would all have to figure out. So there was a bed, there was a little refrigerator and sink and a stove and all the kids would kind of sleep around on the floor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just kind of lined up in a small tent almost yeah.
Speaker 3:And now, granted, we were all smaller sites, so we all fit.
Speaker 1:Similar to where you stayed fast forward later in one of those houses they were all of you, right. So so where, so when did things kind of? Did anything ever settle down as you grew up, or what highlights do you want to share with me that connects our winding story of growing up in those you know in those fields, and your parents and I mean she mentioned there was some, you know, abuse. I don't know how much you want to. We don't need to. You know whatever you're comfortable with.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, most of the time, abuse, always verbal, physical, of course. Always my dad had a very, very bad temper, and so he loved, he had the love of money. So the more kids he would have, the better. You know, the dollar signs would just flash in his eyes. I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Because it just meant more workers is that kind of how? He just kind of was there in anywhere during your life. Was there ever like father to kids, or was it really just kind of like many employees for him?
Speaker 3:I mean, it was many employees for him. I don't think any of my siblings have had that connection with my dad as a father, a nice father figure. It was basically like we have to do what dad says, otherwise we're going to get hurt or kid, you know, beat up or you know yell dad, reprimand it or whatever you want to call it. But no, there's no connection at all. Now, we as children desired it.
Speaker 3:I remember trying to get my dad's attention or love or care from him as a daughter would. And I think part of the reason why was because when we would come home from work we would watch TV the Brady Bunch for example and so I would see those movies and kind of an or Disney, and so that would kind of give me that desire like I want that kind of father or family.
Speaker 3:And but we didn't have it. When you see, reality was not there at all. So so, yeah, physical abuse all the time, verbal all the time, that's all we heard, literally like that's all. We would hear negativity and so, but the desire of having a great dad and us trying to please him and satisfied him by working hard and providing, you know, doing our best to make him happy, which at times it would, it would bring a smile to his face and that would be give us a little bit of joy, I remember. I mean, at least for me. I can only speak for myself, I can't speak for my my brothers at all.
Speaker 3:But for me. I remember that, for example, he would say, ok, today, whatever you make, half of it is yours. So he would send us to work to pick strawberries, for example, and so we would work really, really, really hard. My brothers obviously would work harder than me, because I was younger and they would make more and they were faithful to always give them him half of what they earned. And then for me, because I didn't make a lot but I wanted to make him proud, I gave him everything. I didn't keep any of it for myself, and so it would bring a smile to his face, so there was some recognition, yeah, a little smile and I would treasure that smile, as I made him proud, you know, and I did something good that day.
Speaker 3:At least for that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this is my question Do you think he was proud or do you think he was happy to just have that money? What was that? What do you was? Do you feel like there was a sense of, well, she's given me everything she's made today.
Speaker 3:Well, he didn't know that. Oh he thought I was giving him half. Oh so for I mean for me. I thought, I was making him proud. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I don't know what he perceived it, as you know how she did good. She's a good worker.
Speaker 1:How he viewed it.
Speaker 3:But for me, that little smile made me feel like. I made him proud, I made him happy. That little glimpse of what you were trying or what you were singing on TV or whatever and that was that I longed for and desired to have.
Speaker 1:Probably not enough, but you just like gobbled that up.
Speaker 3:Anything that would come my way. That was you know anything anything.
Speaker 1:So where about your mom and all of this?
Speaker 3:So my mom, very hard worker mom I mean after having babies she wouldn't rest, she wouldn't out, wasn't allowed to rest by my dad as soon as she had a baby she would just kind of get up and running and the next day or two days later go back to work in the fields as well. So there was no recovery time there, because I've had five kids and I know that you need a little bit of time to rest and get your strength back, and I mean you've. Obviously whoever has had children have lost a lot of blood which is iron and energy and strength and so, um.
Speaker 3:So now that I think about it as a mother or when I, you know, remember, um, my mom being like that, having to go to work after having babies, I just it breaks my heart. And when I was a child I didn't understand. I just I didn't care. I wanted her with me because I didn't want to go to work without her. She was my safety person that would keep well, I felt like I would be safe with her. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know anything about your parents' parents, I mean, you're so young and in the United States and traveling where they even you know, where they even in the picture for you at all. Um did you hear any stories about them or?
Speaker 3:Well, my mom's dad I I met a few times. I was little. I don't remember much about him, I just remember um visiting him in Guadalajara, mexico, um, and I remember he was like blue eyed um light skinned man and he we were told he was our grandpa and he was very kind to me. Um, and then my dad's mom and dad, um, my dad's father had a wooden leg, so he had a leg amputated and I didn't understand. But he was nice to us, he would actually um allow me to get on his wooden leg and and like rock me up and down.
Speaker 3:So that was fun for me and it was very, um, limited times that we would go visit them. So he and my knew a little better than my mom's father, and my mom's mother died young, um, not exactly sure if she was 35 or 40 years old, and according to stories, when I talked to my mom, it was because of the abuse that my father, my grandpa um, did to her that she died yeah.
Speaker 3:And then my grandma, my mom, my dad's mother. I met her. I remember um her. She was very, very kind and they lived in Tijuana, which is just crossing the border from Los Angeles or San Diego, I think. I remember.
Speaker 1:So I'm just trying to think about you know cause they say the abuse comes from?
Speaker 2:you know a lot of things.
Speaker 1:They're being, yeah, being learned, and then just that, the anger usually means fear. You know, it's just an expression of fear. So I'm wondering if he was just always like this is such a vagabond life, like going from place, and I want to, I want to back up for just for a second. I I don't. I don't want to make it sound like I'm making an excuse for your dad's abuse or anything. I'm just trying to kind of just understand it.
Speaker 3:No, there's always a root of where everything starts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm not yeah, so I appreciate that, Cause I'm not I'm not trying to say well, he, well, this happened to him, so, but cause there's no excuse for it, but it is learned. But I'm just kind of wondering. That lifestyle is so unsettling and you're at the mercy of the landowner or the boss or you know whatever, and it's. Then it's just from place to place and you got eight kids, so that that anger and rage is in him, and then there's the fear of having to take because he's you're making him money, but he also is responsible for you. So it's just, it's just, it's just. That whole thing is very interesting to me and disturbing, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how are you? How was your relationship with your siblings then? Was there? Was it? Was it like siblings? I think, to go back to the question of your dad being your dad or your boss, were they like your coworker or did you have like sibling times with them? You know what I'm saying, like yeah, um.
Speaker 3:well, I, from what I can remember, uh, because I was born in Los Angeles, I was always kind of like bullied or not bullied, but told like oh, you're, you're um, uh, you're from here, you're not from Mexico, and like a teasing um way not like like Mexican right, right. And so then that put confusion. Confusion in my mind, because I'm not either from there or from here. So where am I from? So do I belong here or do I belong there?
Speaker 3:Um so I'm in the middle Um so there was always a lot of anger between siblings, because I think it was just the tension that my dad would cause um all of us and the the frustration, the anger. The one of the things that my dad would do is to the girls is would um touch our legs, lift up our dresses, which I hate, hated wearing dresses. Um he would caress us in ways that were not appropriate and I would complain and um tell my mom when I could and um he would just when. When I would tell him, like dirty old man and stuff like that, trying to protect myself from him. Um, he would then get angry and if he got angry enough, he would start like hitting us and when my dad would hit us, he would um um not stop until he got tired. Um a lot of the times and so he's just filled with a lot of anger and rage cause that's what?
Speaker 1:all of that, all that energy is just pent in him, and now he's just letting it go. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now, when I say he would touch us, uh is recently learned us girls, uh recently learned. I can only speak for myself and um, but talking with my sisters, um, it's um surface that it happened to them too, and I thought it will only happen to me.
Speaker 1:Oh, you only thought it was you.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I think it's like with everybody else, you think it's just you and not anybody else until you get together and start talking about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty normal.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause you're so afraid, I mean you feel uncomfortable. You're afraid you don't know what other. You know another person's gonna, you know, say about it. So you just don't say anything.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:About it Exactly.
Speaker 3:So the other thing, as we were growing up as girls, um, my dad would um start kind of contemplating well they're, they're going to run away. And I I'm saying this truthfully because I heard him. I heard him say this um, they're going to run away, so might as well get some money out of them. So that's where the selling part comes in, um, where um my sister, what Estella, for example, was um given to or sold to um this man who was her first husband, um, I don't know the how, the amount. Um was too young to understand or no. I didn't know that that was happening until later on Things kind of came to to the surface again.
Speaker 1:So to you, she was just gone.
Speaker 3:Exactly that's. She was just gone, Abandoned me.
Speaker 1:How old, about whole old, was she at that point?
Speaker 3:She was only 17, I believe.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you thought she had left with this man and she is abandoning you?
Speaker 3:Yes, but so then, years later, it came out about that she was she was sold, she was yeah, she was in torment, um, having to be with a man that she didn't even know, um, she didn't love, and it was, uh, my dad, literally, um went to marry them and she had to leave right then and there, after the marriage with that man Same night, yeah, that same day he married them, like literally.
Speaker 1:He went to the to the court or whatever it was, and made sure that she left with him.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then there was a exchange.
Speaker 3:There was an exchange of something.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's like yeah, I want to be. Well, I'm saying it's not going to be real careful, but it really it's kind of like a form of slavery. I mean, he like it under the guise of marriage, but he received funds for it and then I'm sure she had to serve him or work for him in some way.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah, and when you're isolated, this is all like early eighties. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, when you're isolated and, uh, you know her mindset and my mindset is like this is all we know. We don't know anything else. This is how we were raised.
Speaker 1:This is the world Exactly. This is how the world works Exactly.
Speaker 3:That's our lens.
Speaker 1:So to go back when you saw TV shows, did you really just think you wanted that? But in your mind it's like I mean, and it's make believe, but it's still a family, right. I mean it's, it's a show and it's made up, but it's still. What is happening in the United States is something makes family, you know and you would see it around.
Speaker 3:I mean, you would go to the stores.
Speaker 1:Oh, so there's some recognition. So help me understand. Did you think those people were just being treated the same as your family and your siblings? And this is how all dads were? That's yeah, that's just kind of how. This is how.
Speaker 3:My mindset was yeah, everybody's the same. Everybody suffers the same. Right. Everybody's going through the same. This is life. Exactly this is what it is.
Speaker 2:And my auntie probably could tell her own.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she has a whole other testimony, and so does my other sister. I have three sisters, so there's four girls and seven boys and my second sister, before she was sold, she ran away the first time at the age, I believe, 12 or 13. I'm not exactly sure, 100% but between those ages, with a man who promised her to protect her, to get her out of my dad's grip and give her a better life. But he ended up bringing her back and dropping her off at our house a year later or so, something like that. Again, she can tell you more of the details.
Speaker 3:This is just what I remember and I can only imagine the rejection, the hurt that she left from home taking caring with her, so she's feeling like she's saved. And then whatever trauma she experienced with this man who promised her which was all lies obviously coming back home, being dropped off as I don't want her anymore the more rejection and trauma that she's experienced. And then, while coming back home, she has to then endure the abuse and probably the wrath of having to come back home.
Speaker 3:And having to deal with the what is that aftermath with my dad.
Speaker 1:You laughed and you know. So he had, quote unquote, bought her to or just took her away.
Speaker 3:He just took her. He promised her stuff Okay.
Speaker 1:So there was no exchange of money for her, just promised a lot of safety, not that time Okay. Well, promised her safety. One year later, rejection. Now I got to go back to this abusive environment. I got to go back to work. And then, on top of that, the aftermath of your dad.
Speaker 3:Yes, and the anger and the abuse escalated. For her, you know, if we were experiencing all of the anger and the abuse she experienced, it double because of that, because of leaving and having to come back, for having to run away, she got an extra level of.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Another level, another level of rejection, anger and, and she had a strong spirits. You know she was very strong where, uh-huh, very strong will. She would always fight back and try to defend herself, and my dad hated that. Like they clash cause he probably cause they were similar, but he, she would try and she would try to defend herself, she would try to stand up for herself, and they was just worse for her. So she was always told she was picked up in the garbage, she's no good for nothing, and these are words that we were told. But she was told even more. Yeah, that was my second sister, and then, um, with the, the second man who took her that one.
Speaker 3:Yes, my dad sold her to that man for money, and that I know for a fact as well. And then my third sister ran away, ran away and I was just uh, what is happening? I was scared. I was the last daughter to be sorry if I'm yelling.
Speaker 1:I have a strong voice, I can adjust.
Speaker 3:I was the last um daughter um to be um left. So I was scared um to be alone and I kind of, you know, cling to my mom and promised her I would never leave you, because I saw her her abuse, I saw her her pain of, you know, her daughters having to run away.
Speaker 1:She understood because she couldn't protect them because she herself was um getting the same, getting the same treatment, if not more, from my dad.
Speaker 3:Um, so I didn't understand that at the time. But you know, as I became a mother, I then learned, as I grew, in the word of God as well. I then learned about you know what. You know really kind of thinking about what my mom had to endure with my dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah so your dad was um. Your dad was just really detached. Yeah, my mom you guys were just really an asset to him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my mom talking to my mom, I I tried to kind of figure out where it all came from.
Speaker 1:Like like you were saying where was the root?
Speaker 3:Where did it start? How did it start? Why was it like that? It's trying to dig deeper into my mom's thoughts and memories um trying to figure out, get some answers. And according to her, he also was very abused by my grandparents. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And yeah, and so he had a lot of things happen to him as well in his life that I don't know, sure, like he would never open up to us and tell us anything, but I don't know what abuse he he dealt with. I'm sure something, there has to be something, um, and then he also had a car accident where, um, he fell and hit his head and my mom thinks that that's why he didn't think right, because he damaged some part of his head. So all of that combined it could have been you know why his mindset was so out of sorts.
Speaker 1:Do you have relationships with all your siblings? Um, I do and I don't are they all kind of spread out? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I communicate and um, and I try to, you know, to speak to all of them and um, of course, share the gospel.
Speaker 3:They know, who I am in Christ, you know, a daughter of God, um and I I'm not ashamed to share that with them and always, you know, um, but we don't have like a close, close, close relationship. I do have a very close relationship with my sister, stella, and I see my sister, my second sister, um gear Mina, and they live together. By the way, um, and my mom lives with me and we kind of share her with my sisters. Yeah, yeah, since my dad died three years ago, they take care of her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so is your mom and where your mom and dad up here before he passed away.
Speaker 3:No, they were living in Ontario, Oregon.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay, but they were, so they were close. Where's Ontario? Oregon?
Speaker 3:It's right in the border, by the border of Idaho.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, okay Okay.
Speaker 2:And she lives in Texas. Yeah, so she just comes to visit when she can, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, so how long did you have to do this? We'll kind of advance a little bit, okay. Um, how long did you live that life, working it was? That was that up into your teens, and until I was 15.
Speaker 3:Okay, and that's when you're that's when my my life starts kind of starting to shift. My dad is kind of preparing me to um in Arizona. He has a specific man that he wants me to marry because he has properties.
Speaker 3:And according to whatever they talked. Excuse me, they have a um like a pact where, um, if I marry um one of those men what guys? It was a father and three sons and I was supposed to marry one of the sons, and if I married that man, um, the father, uh, the landlord would give him a piece of property. And so he's filling my dad with ideas. I don't believe any of it that he was going to do that, but he's filling my dad with ideas like oh, I will give you this, you know, property. You can start recharging rent for these apartments.
Speaker 1:Right. So your dad's just kind of blindly like he's seeing. Like you said, he's just yeah he just seeing the dollar signs and do you think in any of that part he ever thought, okay, I'm land settling. Do you do you think there was ever any recognition of that? Like no, it's just about money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my dad would have a brand new car and he will sell it for just to, you know, get money three $4,000 for it and then later on get in debt and buy another one. So he had no concept of how to manage money, he just wanted money. Yeah, oh, so he just wanted to yeah.
Speaker 2:He had no no wisdom at all in how to manage money at all. He had physical money in his hands.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So anyways, back to my story here. Yeah, let's go back.
Speaker 3:Let's go back. No, so in Arizona this was the plan and he was always reminding me, you know, under the never in front of my mom. I don't know, I mean, my mom couldn't do anything anyways. But and I'm sure I don't know I don't know for for a hundred percent if my mom knew or not but I did tell her that I didn't want to go out with this man, cause one time, for example, he wanted to take me to the movies and I didn't want to go, cause I had this feeling within myself like this is not, this is. His intentions are something different. I don't want any part of it.
Speaker 3:Sure, and my dad forced me to go. I forced me to go to the movies with this man and I said, okay, that's fine, I'll go with them, as long as my brothers go with me, I'm not going by myself. And so the the the guy said okay, I'll take your brothers. So we went to the movies and he gave my brothers I don't know, like a couple hundred dollars go get the movie tickets and stuff. So they all got off very excited by some popcorn and stuff. They got off and he locked the door, intentionally not allowing me to get out, cause. I was ready to get out and he locked the door intentionally for to keep me in the car. And you know that feeling within yourself, you know like this is going Danger. Yeah, that danger feeling within yourself.
Speaker 3:This is going to be bad. I can just feel it within myself and I just I didn't know God and I said I just started help me, god, help me with just that. Help me.
Speaker 3:God help me within myself and I was telling him, let me out, let me out. And so finally my brother came back and knocked on the door really hard I'm gonna say I'm a nose, you know, let's go and that was my brother, Gabriel. He came back and and got me out of there and I would pray Well, now I praise God because I knew his God that sent him back to get me out of there. And then when I sat in the movies, I sat between my two brothers and that man was mad, Like he was. It didn't go my way, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So Did your brother have any idea what was going on? He just happened to come back to the car and say, hey, let's go. Yes.
Speaker 2:And with all my heart, the God was the one that put it in his heart and he was your protector a lot of the time. Yes, my brother Gabriel was my like the angel Gabriel, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:He was my angel and he protected. He would put himself in front to get hit first, before my dad would hit me, and so my he. We knew that, as I told you earlier, my dad would not stop hitting you unless he was tired, so he would get the blunt of it and then whatever was left, then I got it. So, yeah, he was always defending me, always standing up to my dad, knowing what he was going to go through with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you still in touch with him?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I imagine. Yeah, that's great. So wasn't it right around 15?, if I believe, when you so that?
Speaker 3:was the age where the pact was for me to go and have to marry this man in Arizona. We were working in Washington and my dad was just kind of, I don't know, triggering me or telling me is getting close. Yeah, he was getting antsy. Um, you know it's getting close. We're going to go to Arizona soon and cause there was a certain season for us to do that. It was not time yet, but it was going to be within that year.
Speaker 1:He's amped up to get this land and that's yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly. So in Washington we were working in the flower, where we cut those flowers and bundle them up together and then work ended. And then we ended up after there, here in Portland, to work in the strawberry, the raspberries, the blueberry, and so we landed we always would land at my sister's de las house, because she was here living in Portland with her husband and her two son. Well, no, her one son, yeah, she had one son at the time.
Speaker 3:So from there, um, we worked and, um, we're kind of just trying to figure out what we're going to do next. Um, my, my thought then came I don't want to marry this man. I don't want to do this. My plan was to just commit suicide. I don't want to live anymore. I don't want to live with a man that I don't love and cause. I would see my sister Stella having to the life that she was living and, um, having to deal with it. I just didn't want to deal with it, especially with this man in Arizona who was not a good man. So, um, so, in my thought, the enemy put of course, is the enemy putting in my head um, just end it and that's your escape. Right, get it out of the way.
Speaker 3:So my dad and my mom went out to I don't know, to the movies or something, and left me, um, in the trailer by myself, and so that's when I was going to do it. Um, and then it was a Saturday and my sister Stella knew that I had to stay behind, and so she came and said hey, it's Saturday, you need to go to the church with me and with us. And I said no, um, I don't feel so good, I don't want to go. And she goes no, you're going to go with me. And I said, no, I don't want to go, I don't really want to. I just want to rest cause I'm tired from working in the fields, you know and and she's like I don't care, you're going to go with me.
Speaker 3:And she was just insisting, insisting, and then her husband, who was abusive, uh, was starting to yell at her. Granted, they were Christians. And was this after you went to Arizona? No, it was before. We had gone to Arizona before, and that's where we met the family. I bet you haven't talked about that I did. I did movies with that guy and I didn't like him.
Speaker 2:No but didn't you say didn't you say that man had wives and they would share.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, there's more to that Well.
Speaker 2:I have to say why you you knew he was a bad guy, so we have to go back. That's why there's a reason that in her heart that she knew she had to not marry him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess we're going to go back.
Speaker 1:That's fine, you can rewind a little bit. It's okay.
Speaker 2:I'm like wait, wait, let me do whatever we want.
Speaker 3:So the father and three sons, the oldest son had a wife and and had wives or something, and um, not actually, he had a wife and he had, I guess, um concubine, concubine.
Speaker 1:Other woman.
Speaker 2:Let's just say mom.
Speaker 3:It's called the mistress. Now I'm using Bible terms here.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's called a mistress. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, so amantes and his family.
Speaker 2:Amantes, yeah, and Spanish is like a mistress. Anyways.
Speaker 3:Um, and so they were just really abusive people. They were very abusive to their wives, to their kids Um, well, he was, and the other two sons that were single, and the middle one was the one I was supposed to be married to, married to Um, and the girl I that was the wife of this man.
Speaker 3:She saw me and she came up to me and said are you going to be the one that's going to marry my brother-in-law? And I said no, I'm not going to marry him. He goes yes, you are. He's pointed you out that you're going to be the one, and you know she was trying to talk with me and I about it. And I said, no, I don't want to marry him. And she goes good, don't marry him because they will make a baby, make you have a baby of each one of them. So, for example, the father-in-law she had a baby of the father-in-law, she had a baby of the son of her you know, her husband, and she had a baby of the other guys. So it's kind of like they were creating their own.
Speaker 3:What is that called? The lineage Lineage. There you go, sharing their wives, yeah, and so? So, if I ended up marrying this man, that was going to happen to me is what she was trying to tell me, and then, for more reason, I didn't want to marry this evil man. You would be passed around exactly, exactly, be forced to have babies that were from the whole family, basically and I know this sounds so crazy and so unreal, but it's true. No, I believe you.
Speaker 1:I believe you, I believe you, I'm just trying to figure out. I guess there's really no figuring out why this is happening, like what is the purpose? What are you trying? What are you? What do you think you're creating? I have no idea. Or I mean, it's really, it's really just property yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean you're really just property and mentality is just twisted. Well, it's the enemy.
Speaker 3:You know, the enemy gets well now we know that mindset of these people that are have nothing to do with God and twist their, their mentality, the way of thinking, and to get sure you know, sure, I mean really.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting here, like you know, I have a wife and two girls. So I'm like you're explaining this and I'm trying to rationalize it and there's really no rationalizing it. You know what I'm saying. It's like in their minds they had to have had some purpose. So what was that purpose? Was it really just multiplying? Was it really just using you and these other women for whatever? Was it an ego driven thing like just populating with their? You know there's so many things that's so endless yeah.
Speaker 1:Can't sit here and try to figure it out. Yeah, you just can't.
Speaker 3:So let me go back a little bit more when we were in Arizona, because of my age, in order for me, in order for my dad to justify You've been married so young. No, in order for my dad to justify that he didn't have children working in the fields, because it was something like going on where the state would go in into the fields and see if there was any underage child labor working in the fields. My dad had to have a paper that he had registered the kids into school. So what my dad would do he's very smart, but not smart.
Speaker 1:This is like probably mid to late 80s. Yeah, I'm also trying to figure out or not figure out, but just be aware of the times.
Speaker 3:It's definitely in the 80s. It's 80s because I got married in 1990. Yeah Well, left in 1990. So it's definitely in the 80s, so he would put me into school. So in Arizona I went into school and I had told my teacher, trying to figure out a way to get away and get my dad to stop doing what he was doing to us. I told the teacher because I knew my time in the school was just for a little while, just until my dad got that paperwork and then he would pull us out.
Speaker 3:So we didn't get enough of the schooling for the year, and she then called DHS or whoever to come.
Speaker 3:They had me undressed and checked me out to see if I had bruises and stuff and they found some. And then that day they took me home and they talked to my dad and they sent me to the other room. So I wouldn't hear what they were talking about and I don't know what my dad told them, but convinced them that everything was fine, that those bruises was because we fought between brothers and sisters and we fell and stuff like that. So anyways, my dad convinced those people that everything was fine. It wasn't him, he's the loving God and he had that talent. He had that way charisma.
Speaker 1:Like a yeah, like I was going to say, like a charm or a charisma that you could, he could convince you that he was the nicest person and then turn around and be Mr Hyde. You know, totally different.
Speaker 3:Yes, and so that that day, that night actually, we left Arizona. We left Arizona because of that yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's how you got out of that marriage.
Speaker 1:Because there was some. Yeah, so there was some.
Speaker 3:Circumstances yeah.
Speaker 1:So you had brought some attention and all of that and he got scared. Was there any repercussions for you for that?
Speaker 3:Yes, I had a fever from the repercussions. Yep Got beat up and everything, and yes, yes, yes. Was he planning to bring you guys back? Oh, yeah, yeah. Of course yeah, he did. He planned to bring us back.
Speaker 1:No problem, so then did he come back up here. Then Is that when you came back up?
Speaker 3:He came back here when you left, had to leave Arizona. Yeah To Portland, yes To.
Speaker 1:Portland. So where did you then? So in that span is when you met your husband, correct?
Speaker 3:So I think it was a couple of years later. Did I unplug or something?
Speaker 1:No, no, you're good Okay.
Speaker 3:So a couple of years later again, my times are pretty scrambled, but 15, I was 15 years old and we came to from Washington to Portland. I went to. That's when my story was, where I was going to thinking about, contemplating about coming from. Arizona, from Arizona. Then he was going to sell you right that story when the girl talked to you.
Speaker 2:Okay, from. There.
Speaker 3:What happened after? Oh okay, so see Is it good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fine, it's good.
Speaker 3:From there, well, that part. So she told you all that I was then more convinced to figure out a way to to not get married to this man. And she, I saw her little kids and I saw how they were with her, how they would fight and argue, and so I knew and I was aware, I wasn't unaware of the, the negativity of how they lived and abusive how they were. So from there we came back, following work I don't remember if we and ended up in Utah or Washington or Idaho, but we would just kind of follow where the work was until the time came to go back to Arizona, which is usually in the winter time.
Speaker 1:Sure Makes sense.
Speaker 3:So then I was making plans to do that and my sister was insisting for me to go to church. My brother-in-law started getting mad at her and yelling at her, saying let's go, let's go, we're going to be late for church. And I felt bad that I was being the cause for my sister to get yelled at by her husband and then in turn that made me want to then go with them so I could just go satisfy her. And then, when I would come back, my plan was to continue with my you know to fulfill my idea of ending my life.
Speaker 3:And as I went to church with her, I saw my husband, who is now someone on the altar playing the guitar, and in my mindset was had no, no um desire for guys, had no want about any guys. I was just so disappointed in men that I've, I viewed them all the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, understandably.
Speaker 3:And so when I went and walked into the church and I looked up and saw him, I did not feel that way towards him and I started. I started I guess you could say honestly kind of like Disney Love at first sight is what I felt with daddy. Yeah, and I didn't believe in that, but obviously it happened to me and I just liked him. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then the thoughts of me ending my life, which just disappeared just kind of went old yeah disappeared out of mine, out of sight, and then I had like a desire to continue coming to church.
Speaker 1:Sure, To see the man. Just to be clear, how old were you at this point?
Speaker 3:You're 15. Well, I was 14 going to be 15. Yeah, okay. Okay, she was young, so you were really 14 when your dad was trying to sell you to this man in Adizona, 15 was the plan, but at 15 he was planning to go back and leave you there. Yes, correct.
Speaker 2:So you were a legal marrying age also, where you can get like your.
Speaker 3:In Mexico they get married very young. I know because my cousins.
Speaker 2:But here in, yeah here it's illegal.
Speaker 1:Even in some states, even now, I think it's as low as 16 with permission.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he had to wait to be able to give his permission. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So just to pause for a second. It's so interesting that they're doing all these things. They're doing all these crazy things, but I guess it makes sense to stay with the letter of the law, to not raise those red flags. It's still interesting to me, though, because they're the way they think. Is so not right, legal, crazy, whatever you want to say, okay, the effort and the patience to wait for you to turn 15, to be legal or whatever it's just again, you can't make sense of it. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, you just can't comprehend it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, Because you don't think like that. It's a good thing You're not. You're not sick, yeah, it's. Uh. Well, I think they also have that mentality, like from Mexico or wherever other countries that they've seen this and grown up with this and it's normal to them, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you think that there's? So what's the guy? Were they Mexican as well, or were they white or?
Speaker 3:They were Mexican as well.
Speaker 1:They were Mexican as well, so is there a cultural thing in all of this? I have no idea.
Speaker 3:I'm not from there. I'm not from here, it's like I'm in the middle.
Speaker 2:Well, grandma was married very young too.
Speaker 3:Yes, and again, that's a culture thing. Well, the culture, you see, I don't know anything about it, but I was surrounded with people who were very young and married, and so it seemed like normal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what you did.
Speaker 3:It's not out of the normal what you see every day. So it was Because. How old was grandma when she married your mom? I think she was either 13 or 14. Yeah, same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very, yeah, very normalized over there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm wondering if that's normal or normalized what.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, like there's a difference, like yeah, but the selling part, like that, had to be something from him, you know. Yeah, because he wanted money.
Speaker 3:I think you know, I don't know, Throughout the years I mean there's still that happening, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you hear about human trafficking all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so prevalent today. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Like almost more, and I don't know if we just hear about it more than we used to when we were growing up or because it just seems so prevalent right now, like it's insane. So that mentality is still very I don't want to say strong and I want to say prevalent, but it's just so there. Yeah, that's sad.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe and that might be another reason why those men would share the wife to get as many kids out of it. So they could also do that as well.
Speaker 3:I don't know, sell the children as well. Crazy mentalities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just knew we can't sit here and try to figure all that out?
Speaker 3:No, we can't, and you will never figure it out. I don't think, because you don't have that mindset yeah, so let's stay.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to do that side comment so you see your future boyfriend husband.
Speaker 3:Yes, I see him. I don't have the hatred and anger or disgust towards him.
Speaker 1:And you're barely 15. How old is he?
Speaker 3:He's 14. He was 19. Okay. And so the reason why I hated men was because most of every single one, except my brothers, they never touched me. All the men that would come in my path because of, whether it be in my dad bringing them to the house, or because my dad would used to kind of be one of the coyotes that would smuggle in people to get them crossing to make money, Not all the time, just some.
Speaker 3:You know they would go to him because he was able to do it, but they would always land at our house for a little bit and then move on, and so some of those men would try to then. Revered it Sure. Abuse me, and that's where my mindset towards men came into play.
Speaker 1:Normal yeah, and so so that was Pretty easy to see why.
Speaker 3:It took me off guard when I didn't feel that way towards my husband. Who is my husband now someone when I saw him for the first time? I just why am I like not?
Speaker 2:Why am I feeling?
Speaker 3:I'm not understanding why I like this guy, and so, which was unusual, because I didn't like any guy at all.
Speaker 1:It is. I mean, that's kind of just normal, I would say normal feelings at your age. But it is interesting that you, you know like just a girl liking a boy or a vice versa. So some of that's just normal, yeah, but it is interesting that you didn't feel the way you felt with him and it just happening. It's you know, it's. That's just kind of interesting how that chemistry happens.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was meant to be.
Speaker 1:So how did you then meet him? Because you are considerably younger, Did that like you can pick up from there.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I tried to, you know, looked at him to see if he would notice me and he passed by and it didn't. And then I went again the second Saturday to church to see if I would see him again and just kind of trying to figure out if he was going to talk to me or see me and Notice me, notice me, yes. Finally he did, and he said hi and and he was like ah yeah, within myself.
Speaker 1:Yes, so you're looking for that attention. Yes, have you ever thought about the? I don't know if it's the parallel or the connection of you just looking for some male attempts, like some positive male attention, because you never got it from your dad.
Speaker 3:Exactly, you know. If you would have asked me that day, when I was looking at him, I would have not even said no, no, I'm not but yeah, throughout the years, of course, and so any glimpse of attention he gave you was basically filled, that spot that you were not getting from your dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly it was filling Just even the slightest hello or look would be probably be overwhelming, I'm assuming.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Exactly. So now I understand it that way.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:But at the time I didn't no, I mean your kid I had no understanding, no experience.
Speaker 1:Your experience is your experience and you're 14. I mean, you're so far from your brain being, you know, fully developed and, like you said, you only know what you've seen and all of that, so you're not understanding anything.
Speaker 3:Negativity abuse.
Speaker 1:Right, and so now you're getting a little positive from a male.
Speaker 3:Correct, correct Then. So we were. I was assisting to church faithfully every Saturday until we were here in Portland, oregon, until we had to move to Ontario, oregon, to work in the onions, which is the next harvest, or whatever they have to do Season. Season so what?
Speaker 1:And the potatoes Ministry church is this.
Speaker 2:That was a.
Speaker 1:Not, this is like a regular. It was a Christian Baptist church, yeah, so just I think you may have mentioned that so just a regular Baptist.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the lady that ran that church, it was a woman, pastor she.
Speaker 1:Just unusual even for it is.
Speaker 3:I didn't know Especially back then Exactly, but she would go to the camps where we would, the laborers were, and with her van she would pick up people from the camps and take them to her church and, you know, provide food for them like a meal and a service, and so I was exposed to that growing up and seeing her do that, and that lady was the one that helped my sister, stella, and her husband her first husband start going to the church.
Speaker 3:And how that plays, that story goes about is it's a whole other where he tried to kill himself and tried to kill my sister and her son and the police. It was in the news. The police grabbed him and took him into jail and then my sister fled. That was her opportunity to flee and that pastor lady went to the jail together with the guys my brother-in-law's family to, you know, start sharing the gospel, you know, and help him out. Finally he got out and then he started assisting that church and he said he had changed and everything. My sister, when she left him, moved with us to Arizona and that's where my dad proceeded to try to sell her again to another man.
Speaker 3:You know, try again to take advantage of her. You know, and one of the things that my dad told her says I have to do it because I can't satisfy you, I can't please you, it has to be somebody else. So this is the guy that I chose for you, and my sister heard that and she's like I'm out of here, I'm not going to put up with him again, this again. Right.
Speaker 1:And this is the strong-willed one, right? No, this is the oldest, yeah, the oldest sister.
Speaker 3:Yeah, again, this is her story, thank you, she can definitely share her part yeah. She has another huge story.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you we could write books.
Speaker 1:It must be like a five-parter.
Speaker 3:We're going to eventually for all the hearers. We're going to write a book. Lord of the Millie, eventually, it's what my daughters want, not because I want to.
Speaker 2:They've been begging me to see it.
Speaker 3:We need to see it, and because there's so much, obviously we're not going to cover everything here you know, but lots of little things and different that I can't even cover. It just talking to them one day about it, that's a lot yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Going back. You were supposed to move to Ontario.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we went to Ontario.
Speaker 1:Thanks for keeping us on track. She's like that, it's okay, you totally you're okay. I'm like serious. Thanks for like really just back in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we moved back to Ontario because it was time for the onion and the potato working in the fields and so, and then after that it was going to be headed back to Arizona where the Hope family Sure yeah With the plan.
Speaker 3:But in the meantime, when we were in Ontario, oregon, the little bit that I captured from church, from going to church and seeing Samuel, my now husband, I started talking to God. So I got on my knees every night and challenged God and I you know I don't encourage you to do this, but that's what I did I challenged God. I said, if you are real, if you are true, god you know, if, if you, you know, like they said, you make, you created everything and you created me and you created everything. Okay, so if you're real, then make this the boy of the guitar because I didn't even know his name, the boy of the guitar to come and rescue me and take me and make me his wife, because I don't want to go to Arizona and marry this other guy. And so if you can do this, I will promise you, I will serve you. I will serve you with all my life. I don't even know what that means, but I will do it Like I will surrender my life, like they say.
Speaker 3:I, you know to to you and I would do it every night. I would look at the moon and the stars and and start talking to God and and on my knees and just kind of challenging and praying him, crying especially when it got hard, like there was difficult times.
Speaker 1:I mean you're so desperate to just get out of that situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and my dad with his ways and his things. So that was when I started communicating with God Again. I wasn't a Christian yet. I was just kind of challenging him and daydreaming that that would happen Do you.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's hope. Right, some of that's hope. Do you think that this is going to be kind of a funny analogy or thought? But you know how we think about. Like, oh, if I played the lottery and I won the lottery, the and you'd start thinking about all the things you would do. How do you have all the?
Speaker 1:fantasy of it all. Do you think that's the kind of same kind of thinking? There's a like this, this hope, like if this man comes, if God answers my prayers, it's going to just and you kind of get you start living that a little bit, Did that? Do you remember that, giving you hope and a lightning your mental load at that time?
Speaker 3:Yes, I would literally be like working all day long and just daydreaming and thinking about it, thinking about him the guitar, you know and all that other stuff. And just kind of yeah, and it would make you.
Speaker 1:You're just like this is my life, so your life is unfolding, like this dream or yeah, absolutely, you think that really kind of just kept you going for a while.
Speaker 3:It did Just even those thoughts. It did and at the same time I didn't believe it was going to happen. But I, it was my new fantasy world.
Speaker 1:It was your light yeah.
Speaker 3:That would keep me out of reality, sure, and the pain that I was experiencing at home and the difficulties. So it was keeping me going, like you said, it was keeping me going Absolutely. That definitely was something. And so then this thought came into my mind of telling my dad, because that year, for some reason, the work was very, very low, so there was not a lot of work and we were not making money, and, as you know, my dad loves money or used to love money and so we were not making very much money that year.
Speaker 3:And this thought came into my mind, like tell him that there's work for you in Portland. And so I did. I said, hey dad, you know I'm I was back in the day, I was a good liar and I was like hey dad, I talked to Stella, my sister, and she said there's a job for me lined up and that all I need to do is go over there and then I can just start putting money into the bank and then you can start using as you need to, because we're not making money here. And for me to have the boldness to talk to my dad like this was amazing, that was unheard of. But I did, and I think I only said it like a few times. And then he said okay, go and call her on the phone, I want to talk to her. And I'm like I didn't think he was going to believe me. You know, it was just my fantasy, I guess, and I didn't realize, like what was next If he was going to?
Speaker 3:do it or not. Exactly, I didn't even think about what was next. I didn't even have a chance to tell my sister, stella, prepare her to help me for this plan.
Speaker 1:I had right.
Speaker 3:And so, thankfully, my dad was very heavy and walked slow and I ran like a superhero and there was the phone booths where you would go into the phone booth and dial. And so I dialed my sister and said answer, answer, please, answer, answer. She finally answered and I said Stella, whatever my dad literally, this is true Whatever my dad tells you, say, yes, please, help me, please, you know, please help me. And he walked Okay, give me the phone. And I gave him the phone, he shut the door and I was just like, oh my God.
Speaker 1:She didn't even get a word in, did she?
Speaker 3:I didn't even have a chance to explain anything at all anything at all of my plan, and so I was just like I'm dead. I'm so dead, my dad's going to kill me. I'm going to get beaten up so bad and we're going to probably move after this or he's going to bury me somewhere. I just knew that he was going to kill me. After finding out that it was all a lie, okay, and so he got, he hangs up the phone and he starts walking out of that little phone booth and I'm just kind of walking behind him expecting him to say something, and he doesn't say a word at all until we get into the apartment that we were renting at the time, and he sat down on his couch and I go straight to the kitchen and start washing dishes which was one of my worst things that I hated to do and I just start washing dishes and start sweeping the floor and cleaning the table and start just cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's my way If you ask my daughters. That's my way when I'm stressed and trying to calm down.
Speaker 1:So there was no motivation to. That was not a pleasing thing, that was. I'm filled with anxiety, so I'm just going to do something, I'm just going to clean, Got it.
Speaker 3:And then the next thing that happens, my dad yells for my mom and my mom comes over that's her nickname, come here. And she comes in. And so he starts taking out his wallet, pulls out like I don't know, maybe $100 or something like that, hands it over to her and says take Angelica to Kmart and buy her a luggage and a ticket to Greyhound. She's going to Portland and I was just like.
Speaker 1:So, not a word to you.
Speaker 3:No, not a word, I'm just listening to him say this to my mother and, um, and I'm just kind of waiting for him. I say you're going to Portland to work. Your sister says there was work for you there, so go buy your ticket. Like he's really serious and talking like he's not sure of himself why am I saying?
Speaker 3:this kind of thing. So I'm like obeying, of course didn't say a word and I'm. I get in the car with my mom and she's very obedient. That's one of the things that I love my mom, but at the same time, didn't like at the time, but I learned a lot of how humble she was. So um we go, we buy it and the words that my mom says the whole trip to K-Mart is you're not coming back.
Speaker 1:Like she's telling you yes.
Speaker 3:And I said, no, mommy, yes, I'm coming back, I'm just going to work and then we're going to move. And she knew my mom wasn't going to come back. She's like you're not coming back because she already had three, you know, two daughters that had run away. And she knew, you know I'm sure she knew the life that we were experienced with my dad and and she knew she had no power to protect us because she was being abused by my dad as well. And so those were the words that she said to me, and it hurt me because I promised her that I would be with her until the end.
Speaker 1:And I was never going to marry. Yeah, I mean, you alluded to that. You know, when we first started that you guys were, you clung to her for protection yes, Very close to her.
Speaker 2:Which, by the way, I did to her too. I did that to my mom.
Speaker 3:Yes, but she left me anyway.
Speaker 2:Basically, my mom got paid back by me and it hurt.
Speaker 3:And it hurt bad yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, very hard.
Speaker 3:I forgive you.
Speaker 2:Anyway, go back when. Your mom said you're going to come back yes, and the whole time.
Speaker 1:She's just saying you're not coming back. Yes, she's just saying I'm not coming back.
Speaker 3:You're not coming back.
Speaker 1:She's not saying it for your protection, she's just saying I know you're not coming back, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's like she felt.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3:You know, as a parent, you know your children. There's things that, regardless of what they're saying, you know what the truth is. And only parents can understand this, because a child will, in their mind, says like yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you don't understand, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 1:Exactly and as a parent, you know right, right.
Speaker 3:So that's why. So then the whole time I'm just not believing this is happening and I'm like what is really happening? I'm literally like I'm shocked that it worked. Yeah, like is this really happening? Like I'm really. The whole night. Of course I didn't sleep. I had the trip already scheduled for the Greyhound for the next day at 6am in the morning to leave Happening fast. So fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and your motivation to talk to your dad like that, was it a mix of fear and just wanting to get out, or was it a mix of?
Speaker 3:The boy.
Speaker 1:The boy too. I think it was a lot of that, it can mix up a lot of things.
Speaker 3:It was definitely a mix of everything.
Speaker 1:Did you, because I know how I am? Was there a lot of buildup to that? Or was it just like I have this plan and I'm talking to my dad about it? It was Did you have to get the gumption up to talk to your dad about it. Or did you just think if he hears I'm going to make money, then he's going to say yes, and that kind of made it okay for you to say Let me put myself in that spot right now, from what I remember, what I told you.
Speaker 3:what I remember is it was like a buildup, okay.
Speaker 2:You needed to build your courage.
Speaker 3:Yes, because I didn't have any courage. I literally don't have any courage. What I was taught is you don't say nothing, you put your head down and get out of work? Yeah, yes, you don't say nothing. And for me? That's why I said for me to speak to my dad and tell him this Was amazingly unheard of. It wasn't me yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, and I can't blame you.
Speaker 3:That's what.
Speaker 1:I'm asking is like what was this? Because I'm picking that up, I mean based on just the parts that you've told me. That's why I'm trying to like what was the key? What was the thing that got you on your feet and had the gumption to talk to him about that and put yourself out there?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Probably all in one.
Speaker 3:Knowing what, the Everything you don't want to be sold.
Speaker 2:You don't want to be married to that guy, you want to do that again yeah, everything.
Speaker 3:It was all of it.
Speaker 2:All of it.
Speaker 1:Well, and something that's been and I was going to talk about it more towards the end but something that I've been thinking about, just there's this Probably not so underlying, but this, this constant anxiety, like there's for you, especially the women, it's just this constant Unsettleness, constantly. That's all you know. And that's like all chemical too, it's like just cortisol dumps in your head constantly. You know, just like this fear and worry and anxiety, and like that is what I'm getting, what I'm feeling from it, cause I like, I get it.
Speaker 3:The neutrons are connecting to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's true. It's like I don't want to pretend I could never understand what you went through, but I feel like listening to it, I feel anxious. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm not. I'm not trying to compare.
Speaker 2:Feel her story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just feelings. It's like it's constant, like this thumb on your head all the time and your, your mother, just she has it too. Oh yes. Like she's got a thumb on her head and she sees that it's happening to her kids and there's no in her mind, there's no way out of this Like this is her lot in life, exactly. And I can again, I can never, ever say that I understand.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 1:But I feel as much as I can feel, like, if you know what I'm, do you understand what I'm saying Like. I feel that yes, oh. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:Anyways it's a constant survival mode.
Speaker 3:It's that that's not going to be a survival. Yes, she hit it on the nail. She hit it on the nail.
Speaker 2:You have to go through, like just go through the motions. You're going to just hopefully you get out of whatever you are in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's like to me. For me, when you're so young, I don't like. There's no seeing that Like you hope, and you take yourself to a fantasy land like you did when you're working in the fields yeah, but really you're just like there's no light, it's just tunnel. Yeah, and you're just walking through this tunnel and it's just dark. Okay, I said to get that out.
Speaker 3:Good, I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2:That's her All the guys. This is my mom, this is good, this is good.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, so feeling that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, I think you understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:I could never. We do 100% understand.
Speaker 1:But I feel it like I just that the suppression or the oppression that you lived up to, and we're not even like we're not.
Speaker 2:we're not even at where we're supposed to be. I don't do Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, continue.
Speaker 2:But you love it right.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know if I can say I love it.
Speaker 2:I mean I love it, it's stories. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I mean well we all know that there's God turns all of that into good. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But you know, on your story, we know that there's some redemption, definitely redemption. And hope, and love and all those things. So we have that.
Speaker 4:I'm holding onto that because I'm so stressed out right now Okay.
Speaker 2:Did you?
Speaker 1:die, but did you die?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So, your mom, we're on your way to Portland. Yeah, you're on your way to Portland, I'm traveling to Portland.
Speaker 3:I'm believing that I'm traveling and I'm talking within myself to God.
Speaker 1:I want to stop, just for a pause.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:This is all happening so fast.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Was there? Like you know when you see a movie I was in the movie yeah, you're in like a movie where somebody's trying to escape and they get like on a bus or a plane. And you're like you're just waiting, as the spectator, for the hammer to come down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I'm like I'm so fast I'm guessing that it's not moving fast enough for you yes. Like you want this done right now.
Speaker 3:Yes, and one of the things I do want you to understand as well that my dad was in the moment If, all of a sudden, he had a lightning, like you said, thought in his mind like what did I just do? Did I just really let my daughter leave? And he would get on the car and go pick me up at that moment. And so that is something that I had in my mind like waiting for him Like I was.
Speaker 3:I was not surprised. I would not be surprised if I would see him in Portland waiting for me when I got off the Greyhound. That's how fast the movement of my dad would jump to the situation or to make decisions all of a sudden. So that was something that was running in my mind the whole trip there. But at the same time it was mixed emotions because I was excited that I was kind of getting that trip to Portland relaxing being safe and having that little opportunity of freedom and not stress.
Speaker 1:Even knowing that it could end.
Speaker 3:Even though that it could end, but I was kind to take advantage of that moment.
Speaker 1:You're living the hope that you have, yes, and I was like holding onto that, even if it's temporary. You're holding onto that, even if it's just a few hours.
Speaker 3:I was just like trying to milk it for real and just kind of enjoy it, but at the same time you can't enjoy it because you have the fear. That is like, oh, he's going to be there waiting for me, but thank God he wasn't. I got there. My sister, stella, was a little bit behind.
Speaker 1:Was that a relief? Did you think he might be?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:So were you. Was that a one step of relief when you got there and you saw that he wasn't, Was that like a thought in your head?
Speaker 3:Yes, but it was always kind of like a little thing behind, you know, in my head, like at any point in time he could come.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, he could come.
Speaker 1:So maybe not at the Greyhound, he'll show up at my sister's house and take me, which would do it.
Speaker 3:what happened at any point in time?
Speaker 2:That's just the way he was. My grandpa was known to get up and go somewhere on in an instant.
Speaker 3:In the middle of the night. He wouldn't tell the landlords or anything. He would just pick up everything, not all of the things, just little things. Just get it back up close him. I'm going to like like he was running away from something, and that's the fear that we were also like raised up with as well when we would move from place to place.
Speaker 1:That's how he would move us in the middle of the night and it's just as part of what I was just I just went on and on about, is that there's always this urgency and anxiety. It's just like a lot of different kinds of anxiety, like you, just never there's no settledness. I mean, even on that bus to Portland there's some settledness. There's even just that from Ontario to here's probably 15 hours, just even that.
Speaker 3:Six to eight hours. Oh, I'll do a little more.
Speaker 1:Is a six to eight hour period of freedom and quiet and peace, yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 3:So you get to Portland. Get to Portland. My sister, Stella picks me up. In reality my desire was that the boy of the guitar would come and be there and pick me up, but he didn't. So her fan is. But she picked me up and took me in and the whole way from the Greyhound to her house I explained what I happened, what I did, what I said, and she said I knew that it was something like that. And that's the reason why I told him yes to everything he was asking, because I knew with something about him trying to sell you, you know to and held what she had at this point.
Speaker 3:So she's eight years older than me and I'm 14.
Speaker 1:So 22.
Speaker 3:22. 22.
Speaker 1:Wow, so she's just. She had one son at the moment.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, and so yeah, she and and so we. As soon as I got to the house that next day, we started looking for work Sure, looking for work, and we didn't find it. For about three weeks we didn't find any work at all.
Speaker 3:And I'm guessing those three weeks at a her paycheck, at a her bank, secretly from her husband, she was depositing money into the bank account that my dad had established for me to put money in, so that he would not realize that it was all a lie. So this is my sister going above and beyond to to help me so your dad won't suspect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he would not amount of thinking.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And in kind of strategizing is crazy. I mean it's smart, but she's 22 years old Like yeah.
Speaker 3:And so finally her husband found out that she was doing that Like she was using money more, that she was not having enough, or you know, he figured it out. So then I was like, what am I going to do? And she said, well, I don't know what you want. You might have to go back to dad. And so I then asked my husband who is my husband now for a loan. Like, can you loan me? I will promise I will pay you back. You know, as soon as I get a job and I'll pay you back, and I'll pay my sister back, because you know one of the things I don't like owing people.
Speaker 3:I do not want to be a burden to anybody.
Speaker 1:So do you have a relationship with him at this point?
Speaker 2:Like a friendly relationship with him?
Speaker 3:With who? With some? Well, with my husband. How are you talking to him?
Speaker 2:How did you ask him for a loan?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Well, yes well, as soon as I land in Portland. Sorry, let's go back. We're still there. It's okay.
Speaker 3:As soon as I land in Portland, every Saturday was the church service. So I of course go to church and that's where we're talking with my husband or someone then and you know, building relationship with each other and talking and going out. Sometime he asked for permission to stay life. He could take me out to eat. So we're just every so often, not all the time, just every so often in certain hours, and then come back. So, yeah, and that's where I got the courage to ask him because I ran out of options Like who do I go? Where do I go? Where do I get money if I don't have a job?
Speaker 1:And so you're so young, so it's going to be tough to find a job because you're like 15. I mean, we could work back then, but you know, it's probably not a lot.
Speaker 2:Were you 15 or 14 still.
Speaker 3:I was 15.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like you can barely work at that age.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he loaned me money, put it in the bank and everything was clear. And finally, and again, I'm talking to God. Again I'm not a Christian, but I'm learning as I'm going to church with my sisters. And so I'm talking to God and I'm saying give me a job, because I don't want to go back. And finally he did. He gave me a job and an opportunity to be hired and started putting regular money in the bank and, of course, paying my sister what she had loaned me and him paying him back as well.
Speaker 3:So my conscious was clear.
Speaker 1:Right and you're sending money to your dad as well Depositing money in the accounts of your dad, are you living with your sister?
Speaker 3:Yes, so my sister was living in a little tiny trailer house. She was there kind of like next to a house of an older woman and she was taking care of helping this older woman, kind of be like a caregiver no, not necessarily a caregiver, but just kind of like friendship, a companion. If anything happens to her, she'll run to her to care for her, because she was very independent lady and so she had a huge house up in the mountain next to the mountain and so my sister talked to her and asked her if I was able to stay in her house, because she didn't have room in that little tiny trailer to keep me out the way she would. I mean.
Speaker 3:I could sleep on the floor, I didn't care. Right. Yeah, or in the car. I was more than content to do that because I was used to that?
Speaker 3:Sure, but thankfully the old woman didn't know all the facts but she said, yes, I could stay. So she made me a room and she had an ugly cat like huge cat, and that cat would follow me everywhere that's why you don't like cats, probably and it would get on the bed and release a lot of hairs and they would cling to me. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is I was able to stay with the older lady and sleep there, which was very creepy because she always had the lights turned off, and even that I conquered my fear because I was very afraid of the dark. And so if you have to live here, you're going to have to live with the darkness.
Speaker 3:And there was no cell phones where you can turn that little light on and hide yourself through Flashlights, yeah, no, flashlights, yeah, so that's where I was staying, next to my sister's little trailer.
Speaker 1:So you've yeah, so you've established a relationship with your now husband. Yes, how did that progress?
Speaker 3:So then, um, thankfully I don't know exactly what happened that um we, my dad, did not come to pick me up in December, January, um, to go to Arizona, cause that was about the time that we were going to be, heading to Arizona.
Speaker 3:Um, I think there was something going on Again, I don't know, but there was um something going on that we, that uh trip for that moment got postponed, and it was about end of January um that my husband was starting to um tell me we should move. You know, we should move in together. You should move in with me, I'll protect you. And trying to convince me, like you know, cause I was kind of opening up to him by then, like telling him this and this is happening.
Speaker 3:I just want you to be aware I may not be here, but he does going to come and take me and I'm going to have to go because I don't have a clue of, uh, what's going to happen next. And I honestly didn't believe that my dad was going to leave me there for very long, just because I knew how my dad was. It was already too too much time, and so I just and my dad was also calling my sister and saying, you know what? We're going to start thinking about moving to Arizona and, um, stuff like that. And so then that's when I was sharing more with my husband, um, about what was going to happen, and he was, you know, trying to convince me you know, just come with me, I'll protect you, I'll protect you from him. And I'm like nobody can protect me from my dad, like he's going to kill me. There's no way, um. And right about February I think it was February 18 that I decided to move. You know, move with him. Well, I didn't actually decide.
Speaker 3:We went out to eat. This is what happened for real, for real. We went out to eat and he, he, after eating, he took me to his apartment and he goes, you know, come in and everything, and I'm like not feeling okay. But I came in because I've been going out with him for a while and so I'm like okay, and um, come in, come in. And I'm like okay, and so then he locked the door and that felt gave me like fear. And it's not that I was afraid of him, I was afraid of what was going to happen. Um and so, um, he says you're not leaving, you're staying here. I'm like I can't do that. You know that I can't do that. You're not leaving, so get used to it, you're just done, you're staying here with me. I'm going to protect you and this and that. And I was like hopeful, like yeah, maybe he can protect me, like maybe he he can stand up for my dad to my dad and um, and then no, he can't.
Speaker 3:You know, I was a battle of the minds you know back and forth, and finally I, I didn't put up a fight and just stayed with him. But the next day I was so uneasy and, um, I, what did I do? My dad's going to kill me, like reality. Reality hit, and my sister, stella, obviously, was worried and, um, I called her and I said I'm with some will, and she's like, I know you're with someone, and, um, I'm going to have to tell my dad that you left, you know that, right, cause I can't.
Speaker 3:I'm married and my and so, in my way, and my, her husband was um angry that I did that and and he wants me to call dad and tell him what you did. So I have to do that. I cannot protect you anymore. And so I said, I know, and I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I did that, you know. And I was just like feeling so bad. But at the same time, she, she, she had limited resources and she could not do very much either, because her husband was also very abusive towards her. And so, um, and he was getting angry already that I was there, even though I wasn't living with them in the trailer, but I was there an extra bird and exactly.
Speaker 3:And he was not content from the very beginning at all, Even though she was trying to tell him like, oh, you know, she's getting to know God and she's coming to church you know, kind of convincing him but it didn't face him he didn't care yeah. So my dad found out that day and that's next day he was there to get me and, um, my sister led him where he, you know, I lived with my, where I was staying with my husband and they um talked.
Speaker 3:I was hidden under the bed and the bed was very like this for real.
Speaker 2:I was like literally stuck in the bed. For people who can't see how much, what do you say?
Speaker 3:three inches, yeah, yeah, for people who are not in just hearing, it was just. I was literally like stuffed under the bed. Right. And if he wants to get me out, he has to get me. Pull me out of here and I was going to fight like a cat. Yeah, like the ugly one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like the ugly cat, like the ugly cat she hated.
Speaker 3:So in the mean, in the meantime, in the other room, my sister, stella Samuel, my dad were there in my one of my brothers, who was a tough brother very um, how would you say he? He likes to fight. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um was there as well. He was ready to take me back with my dad. It wasn't my my brother Gabriel, he would have nothing to do with it. He didn't want me to come back. He said I was fine where I was as long as I was safe and happy. But this other brother he was. He was just like my dad's mini mini, mini, yeah.
Speaker 1:So he came and they reinforcements, uh-huh so in your husband's like 19,. I mean, he's not he's grimy homo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was skinny yeah. Pictures.
Speaker 3:Very little, but he I don't know what they said. I know one of the things that my sister, Stella, did say to him. My dad is like if you take her back now, she might be pregnant already. Why do you think she ran away? She might be pregnant. So if you take her back and you give her away to somebody else, that other person is not going to want that baby and it's going to beat her up and he's not going to give you anything for her.
Speaker 3:And so then my dad set up a plan and said okay, so if you give me $3,000 for her, I will, you know, leave her here and not call the police on you, because she obviously I'm underage and I had no concept of laws or anything like that at that time. No idea, and neither I don't think my husband did either, because, again, he was raised in Mexico, he's from Yucatan and so he probably for them it's normal that girls yeah Right, right, it's not even a thought.
Speaker 2:Not even a thought. Exactly Right.
Speaker 3:So there was no breaking the law in our minds. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, obviously, but my dad knew that and he was going to use that against us or him, so I don't know what agreement they agreed upon and they left. And then someone came and my sister said you can come out now. And so I was able to come out. I didn't believe it, but I came out and they had left and I just started crying, crying, crying, like I couldn't believe it. What did you say? What happened? Are they coming back, right? And so people's no, don't worry, you're fine.
Speaker 3:Like a week later, my dad sent the letter. He wrote a letter, I don't know how, but he wrote a letter, and on that letter it says again $3,000 for her and I won't call the police on you, and I want it by this day and this time and everything. And I was so furious that he would not stop doing that. And so my sister's like save that letter for proof. And you know, and I'm like what proof? Like nobody's going to believe me. I already tried it. And so I just got mad and angry, like really angry, and I just tore that letter apart and I'm like nobody's going to believe us now. And for what? Where are we going to say anything? My dad's going to get away with it anyways, and that's just because he's done it so many times. It got in the way with it, like there's no stopping him, and so I was just disappointed and felt like an object and not a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just getting bartered Like yeah. No value, no value.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, a little higher than my sister, but no value no value at all, but my dad was smart. Yeah Well, he sold his car trying to get the money gathered together and according to him he paid him. I didn't want to hear or know about anything about it, but according to my husband he paid him, so he would leave us alone.
Speaker 1:So you don't know for sure. I just didn't.
Speaker 3:I kind of closed myself like. I'm sure he did, you know so that he would leave us alone, because that's what would calm him you know, that was the only thing that would satisfy him is having that in his hands.
Speaker 3:And so I'm not surprised. And so that's what happened there. We had a very difficult time because I was bringing into this relationship with my husband lots of trauma, lots of turmoil and post-traumatic stress, and I was waking up at night hitting him for no reason, thinking it was my dad coming to get me and doing things to me and or other people, and so I was just like fighting back. And then I would wake up and realize it's him, like my husband, and I would just grab him and hug him and start crying. And so my husband put up with this for a while and he honestly told me he thought like what did I get myself into? Yeah, I don't. He started bawling because he could. He felt like he could not help me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean really you're still a child, I mean you're still an adolescent, I mean you've got so much growing to do and he's just taken this on and now he's not your father or anything, but like he's got to take care of you.
Speaker 3:And he was willing, but he just, he didn't know how to take care of the emotional part, not understanding that part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the emotional part.
Speaker 3:No, because I couldn't get married legally, but we got on our knees. He was a Christian, I was not one, yet I was kind of learning.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:And so he got. We got on our knees and we dedicated ourselves to God. To be as a. It doesn't mean anything to men, to the law, but for us, in in men that we committed ourselves as a couple and into God and also, to a point, made a pact with God.
Speaker 3:That day, you know that we would serve him together and stuff like that, and I didn't know anything. I was like, yeah, okay, yes, yes, yes, lord. As I grew then I made packs with the Lord for my family, for my kids, and the Lord has been faithful to you know. Keep the promises in the packs that we have done with him and continue so blessing. Yeah, yeah, grace and mercy.
Speaker 2:How soon after did you do that After grandpa left? Do what? Make a pact and be married spiritually?
Speaker 3:you could say yeah, I think fairly, fairly soon after. I don't know exactly the time frame. I mean time is kind of escaping me. I don't know if it was a month later or a few weeks later, probably a month later, I would say. Again, I didn't know much about those things. I was learning as I was going and it was kind of confusing because I was race Catholic and you just go to church to the mass, listen to the priest talk and then sing some songs and go home.
Speaker 1:I grew up Catholic too. I know exactly what the Wawa was yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Because if you ask me what they said.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to be able. I know the Mother of Santa Maria, mother of you, know all those little prayers prayers repetitive yeah, the Hail, mary Hail. Mary yeah, that's what they call in.
Speaker 1:English. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, santa Maria in Spanish anyway. Yeah, our fathers so all those things?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we would have to get on our knees, and every little ball meant one.
Speaker 2:And so, mom, all the Rosary Sorry.
Speaker 3:The rosary. There, you go See, I don't know, but.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was. I grew up Catholic. My whole family did so. I did First Communion, confession, and then I was an altar boy when I was younger, from probably from eight, nine till I was 13 or 14. Yeah, so the whole thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was. I still go to a side note. I still once in a while, because I go to a four square church. Now you know I'm not Catholic, but almost every year I go to a midnight mass, just because it's kind of.
Speaker 3:There's some peace there for me. Yeah, and no offense to any Catholics. You know, this is yeah, yeah, for me it didn't.
Speaker 1:I don't have a whole grand picture of it. I'm not down with necessarily, but there's. It was my through formidable years.
Speaker 3:So there's, like I said, there's still some peace there going to a midnight mass, I mean, if anything, it's where I started hearing about God and you know it was basically the start, but nothing came out of it.
Speaker 1:It's very repetitive. Yeah, it's very repetitive. A lot of ritual and life goes on normal exactly, and there's a lot of abuse within the.
Speaker 3:That seems like it's okay with the priests and whatever.
Speaker 1:Anyways, that's another whole other thing.
Speaker 3:A whole other thing exactly, but yeah, but this is the way, the truth in the life.
Speaker 1:So you're so to go back to your boyfriend or your husband. Your spiritual husband is You're having nightmares, waking up hitting him, so he's not sure what to do with all of that. So what does that lead to?
Speaker 3:That leads to a lot of frustration for him and for me for him for not being able to understand me and get me, and for him not knowing what's going on with me, like what's happening to me, and I'm assuming you should know. I already told you everything you know and I would tell him. I guess I didn't tell him everything, just glimpse here and there pieces of it and he thought in his mind, okay, get over it, like you're with me now, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't, and that sounds like a guy. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. It very much sounds like a guy. Okay, well, we're past that now so let's keep moving forward.
Speaker 3:It's a whole thing, that we have to release it to the Lord and allow him to heal us and really trust in him and accept the forgiveness that God has for us. That's just a whole other layer of learning.
Speaker 3:And he's learned that through the years, but at the time that we were newly together we didn't know that nor him, even though he was a Christian, with his family and then me, and that's another thing like I expected him to know, because he's a Christian, like he should know, right, but he himself had things that he was dealing with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that human part of it, like you're dealing with trauma that he's never going to understand or doesn't understand at the time. So there's all in its manifesting and he doesn't know what to do with it. He has to feel it with you and, speaking as a guy, most of us don't like to feel all that stuff. So it's like, well, let's move on. You're with me now, you're safe, put all that stuff behind you. But psychologically that stuff has to be worked out with a therapist or praying. There's a lot that you have to go through. Really, I'm a huge believer in therapy. There's a lot of like. I'm a believer now. A lot of like putting it all.
Speaker 1:I think we talked about this, putting it all in the right spot. You know all of that trauma and it's appropriate place and to understand it and at on some level, give your parents grace because of how they grew up and how much. Because I've had to do that, you know, with my parents. You know I've had to put grace in spots. So I don't grow up, I don't continue to be angry with them and you know, and all those things. So your husband is 19, 20 years old and has no clue and doesn't want to feel all that stuff. So it's like, okay, let's move on and you need to stop feeling all that stuff.
Speaker 1:And we're going to move forward as a couple, but and there's just so many layers- of what you've had to deal with. He has no idea. I mean, you've told him but you know, lived it.
Speaker 3:So, anyways, so yeah, that causes that just is, uh and I, you know that's what's causing the lot of the miscommunications, misunderstandings, and then that slowly killing that passion and love that he thought he felt for me, and I'm also, in a way, um, like not wanting him as well because he's not understanding me and getting what I need, like the emotional support and everything, spiritual support, and either one of us we were green, we didn't know, and so now I know that, but at the time it was just so hard and frustrating, um and again he had his own issues that he had to deal with, apart from having me, now that in in his life, and so it was just so tearing us apart, basically.
Speaker 3:And in the midst of that, um, we were struggling to stay together, trying, which then we ended up going to live with my parents, believe it or not, because I longed for my mom after that, and we were sleeping on the floor, which he was okay with because we were newly together and then we worked in Ontario, oregon, for about a month or so. He didn't like the work, thank God. He didn't like the work in the fields.
Speaker 3:And so he says we are not gonna stay in this. We need to look for something else and I was so thankful because I didn't want to work in the fields for the rest of my life. That was something I said, this is gonna kill me. I see people around me that their bodies are just deteriorating and just not surviving well.
Speaker 3:So, I didn't wanna do it for the rest of my life. I wanted to do more. I didn't know what, but I did. And so from there, we bought a car from my brother and with that car we moved back to Portland. And where do we land? Back, with my sister Stella, we parked that car. They allowed us to park the car until we found an apartment and we were seeking apartments after apartments after apartment, and everywhere we went it was denied, denied, denied. And part of the reason was is because we were underage, we didn't have history of credit at all.
Speaker 3:So they were always denying us. So we ended up living in the car throughout that time. So we were living in the car. We would take a shower with the old lady's house that was there and then use the bathroom in the outhouse outside, and then we would just buy fast food and that's what we would eat. And I ended up eating lots of Burger King and salads and stuff like that and I said we have to find somewhere to live. We can't live in this car forever and my brother-in-law is getting mad again because we're parked here. It's another burden for him. So we were trying. Every day we would go and try to figure out where to live.
Speaker 3:Finally, we went to El Programo in Portland and they had a little flyer hanging there that said Job Corps and I was reading a little bit that I knew how to read at the time. I was reading about what it was and it was 15 to 20 year olds. They would help and they would have like a dormitory. They would give them education, ged and a trade, so they were able to attend a trade school and they would get paid for being there as well, so they would get like an allowance. And so I pulled a little sticky of the phone number and I called them and I said I'm interested in this Job Corps, whatever thing this is, and they set up an appointment for us. It was all the way downtown and high rise place.
Speaker 3:We went there, we talked to them, they explained to us what the program was about and we told them we were married and they said oh great, we have a Job Corps that takes married couples, so you'll get your own little room and then you both get to study, you get to work on your GED and you get meals there, you get an allowance, and then you come back to your little room and you're together. And so I'm like that's great, we're not gonna live in the car anymore. And so they needed our birth certificate and they needed our marriage certificate. And we look at each other. We're like well, we're not, like we don't have a marriage certificate, but we're married before God. And they're looking at us like these kids, what are you talking?
Speaker 2:about Married before. God.
Speaker 3:And so we're trying to explain to them that we made a pact with God. You know well, that's what I'm trying to explain to him Because my husband had limited English learning.
Speaker 3:He just come from Mexico, so I was telling him what we did and no, it's not gonna work that way. You have to get legally married in order for us to allow you to come to this Job Corps for married couples. So, but what we can do is we can send you to a Job Corps where there is for both of you, but you're gonna be separated. I mean meaning he's gonna sleep in the men's dorm and you're gonna sleep in the women's dorm. You can see each other, you can study together. Everything's the same is the only difference is you're not gonna live together. Can you do that? And so I looked at him and I told him, explain to him what they were saying.
Speaker 3:And he goes well, we have to do something, because we can't live in the car anymore and I don't have enough money anymore. So we said let's try it. And we told him, right there, yes, let's do it. So when can we do this? When do you wanna leave? And I said as soon as possible. Okay, can you come back tomorrow? By tomorrow we'll have your tickets for to the bus and send you that way. Just have your clothes, or you don't need very much stuff and so, anyways, we head that way. Again. We're on the bus thinking like, is this real, what's gonna happen? And come to find out a lot of the Job Corps was kids that were coming out of jails and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:they would be sent there as an alternative option for them to learn something and do something for themselves.
Speaker 3:So we felt like we were like bad kids but at the same time we took advantage, like we need to stay here until we graduate and learn everything we can, and he would encourage me and I would try to encourage him, because we both had those feelings like we couldn't survive in this place if we didn't encourage one another.
Speaker 2:But it was very hard.
Speaker 3:This place was in Newport. I had said Astoria, for some reason. This place was in Yahuats, in Yahuats, yahuats, oregon, which is close to Newport, close to Newport.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:Just to clarify, because I said Astoria and I don't know. Yeah, no, it's Yahuats, Oregon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't remember why I said that yeah, yeah, it's Oregon and it's all over the coast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's in the coast somewhere up there. So when I went there, I had found out that I was already pregnant. I didn't know, and I didn't know until I was six months pregnant. I started feeling something in my tummy and I'm like what's going on? And I didn't have the nausea.
Speaker 1:I didn't have any of that in the beginning.
Speaker 3:Nothing absolutely nothing, and of course, I didn't know anything about that. I mean, I would see my mom with her belly like that, really stretched out, and so that's what I thought it was pregnancy, but I didn't know what to expect. I was still getting my menstrual period, so I didn't.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:Yes, it wasn't as heavy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you would not.
Speaker 4:It wasn't as heavy, but it was you would have no idea and I just thought, maybe stress, I don't know yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, so, yeah, so it was really weird and I don't know if God had allowed it that way for me to not get stressed out or worried. But finally I went to the nurse. There was a nurse office there and she tested me like what are you feeling? And she tested me around and she had me do a pregnancy test. Yep, you were pregnant. I'm like what? Yeah, you're pregnant. And she then proceeded to say that she could take me to a clinic to get rid of it and I was like, no, why would I do that? Cause you can't have a baby here. You can't even be in this school with a baby. We don't allow. Do you see any pregnant women?
Speaker 1:girls here.
Speaker 3:And I said, no, but I'm not going to get rid of my baby. Like I want a baby. And so she's like, no, we can plan it and everything. Think about it, because otherwise you're going to get kicked out and everything.
Speaker 3:The devil wanted to kill me since early on, and I told that to Adriana from the very beginning that from the get go the enemy wanted to destroy her life because of her purpose in this world and the difference that my kids are making in this world. So, yeah, so, anyways, in the meantime I hadn't as we were there living in Job Corps, I had met Roy Trowbridge and Peggy well, peggy later on, but Roy Trowbridge, who worked there in the office. I would go in the office and check for a mail or something and talk with him and he kind of liked me, like, oh, you know, she's different and cute and everything, and she's following this little, this guy, this Mexican boy, like a little puppy, and you know he would mention that to me and I said, well, he's my husband and he's like he's your husband. And I said, yeah, well, he's, you know, according to God, he's my husband.
Speaker 2:I told him you know, my idea. Right.
Speaker 3:And so he laughed same, like you're doing right now.
Speaker 2:First marriage. All husband, you triggered her.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, and we bonded with him and he, I told him what was going on. I was, I didn't know who else to tell. I told my husband, of course, but I didn't know who else to tell that this nurse was trying to get me to oh right To take me to an abortion clinic at the time of, obviously, I didn't even know what that was. Right.
Speaker 3:To take my baby out before in time. And so he says what? And he you leave that up to me, Don't worry about it. So I don't know what he did. He went to the board, he went to the higher ones and talk to them. They fired that lady for doing that. And come to find out. I wasn't the first nor the last person that she tried to do that with she. She was doing that to a lot of girls that were ending up getting pregnant in that place.
Speaker 2:And they get compensation for that.
Speaker 3:you know that. For, yeah, I don't know, but anyways, yeah, he talked for me Cause obviously, as you can tell, I didn't have a lot of wisdom in how to speak up for myself.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I felt like I didn't have a voice.
Speaker 2:I mean again they go back, you're 15.
Speaker 1:Can't forget that you're 15 years old. You were 10 years away from having a fully developed brain and your husband still has like six years or five years of development. Like you, guys are kids trying to figure all of this out. You have no, and on top of all of that, you had the life that you led. There's like there's no education. All you've known is abuse and working Like there's no reference to anything. I mean, I mean, you guys are kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, the amount of. I mean, you didn't know a lot because you were kids, but the tenacity to just keep moving is admirable at that age. You know what I'm saying. Like you just kept fighting, yeah, figuring it out.
Speaker 2:Fighting for her life.
Speaker 1:So you have no idea what life is about. Cause you have zero education. You're 14. I mean my girl's at 15. Your girl's at 15, light years ahead of where you're at at 15. Because of the insulated life that you've led, you know what I'm saying. Mm-hmm. But the tenacity to just keep moving forward and figuring it out. However, that look, that fight is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen.
Speaker 1:Without knowing anything. You just did it, you just kept figuring it out.
Speaker 3:I can only say God was there the whole time, the whole week.
Speaker 1:Yes, I believe that. I believe that, but your hand was in it too, like you did it. So I don't want to minimize what he did for you. I believe that, but you get to take some of the credit to keep moving and figuring it out. You figured it out, so, anyways.
Speaker 2:Cause some people would give up and stop and like probably it would have ended it by then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Either ending it or just okay, this is my lot in life. I mean I have no hope. I mean it's one of the two and you just kept fighting. You lived in cars and you lived, you know. I mean that lady got fired. I mean you befriended this guy and he helped you.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So then, after he spoke up, though, it was out in the open that I was pregnant and they couldn't have somebody pregnant- there, yes, so then they sat me down with whoever was the leaders there and Roy was there in, you know, speaking on my behalf and they were coming up with a plan where they were going to cause me to, just you know, give up the school and leave. I couldn't be there, but he somehow got given wisdom and said well, why don't we do this, like, why can't she come to school, do what she needs to do and then leave at the premises and go and stay somewhere else and just come to the schooling and when she graduates which she will graduate- yeah that's gonna look good for the school, because that's what we're looking for graduation of, you know, kids and numbers, right, I guess, or something.
Speaker 3:And so I don't care what it was, but it was God's wisdom that he was able to come up with the plan. Again, I had no idea what to say, what to do. I just figured, okay, I'm going back pregnant and that's all, and someone's gonna stay here by himself to finish something, so we could have something. That was our plan. And but he said, no, let's, let's figure it out. Well, that sounds good and everything, but where is she gonna stay? You know where all the other extra little details and he goes. You leave that up to me, don't worry about that. I will come back with the plan. We'll meet again and you leave that up to me. Like he was like on it.
Speaker 1:Yes, he was on it. Yes.
Speaker 3:And I just like wow.
Speaker 1:Really cared. I mean now, is there any recognition Like he is a man that's like?
Speaker 3:He's a man and he's a white man.
Speaker 1:And taking care of you.
Speaker 3:And the why I say this is because when we were working in the fields, all the owners of the farms and the fields were very rude to us, very, would humble us and everything, and I just the way they treated us under, pay us and sometimes, if they felt like it, they wouldn't pay us. We would work the fields and everything and my dad wouldn't get paid for all the work that we did because they felt like it or something.
Speaker 1:Right, so they had that power.
Speaker 3:They had the power and or they would threaten us of calling the immigration on us and so my dad would flee and I think that's where the part where he would leave in the middle of the night and just quietly and escape came from. That's where I kind of connected the dots with that and so in my mind, all Americans, white people, sorry to say that no offense.
Speaker 1:No, listen, this is your experience.
Speaker 3:This is all you know. This is my mindset, that I have.
Speaker 1:So it's normal. Anybody would feel that way.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I was in awe to see this man defending me and fighting for me, because I just didn't know what to think of it, and that's why I refer back to God, that God was the one that put it in his heart. The God was the one that guided him and gave him wisdom to speak up and say things like this Cause I just couldn't understand it, I couldn't comprehend it. And then he, a few weeks went by. He then told me I have a family for you. They're gonna take you in. It's Thanksgiving. You're gonna go to their house and you're gonna eat with them, you and Sam, and you're gonna get to know them and see if you like to be with them and you wanna. You know if it's a good fit, and if it's not, we're gonna find you somewhere else.
Speaker 3:Okay, and I said, sure, so they took me to, but first we're gonna go to church, because they were Christian. First we're gonna go to church and then we're gonna go to them. Okay, so they would take us to their church. And then we went to eat Thanksgiving dinner with this lady. She was very kind, very, very, very nice and Americans as well, and I just he behaved quietly and a little bit and tried to do everything right so I could stay there with them, I guess, so I could continue studying.
Speaker 1:That was the hope.
Speaker 3:And we went back to Job Corps. They dropped me off and they said he said I will give you the news if she decided to take you in or not. And.
Speaker 3:I said okay, so next Sunday, be ready, I will let you know. And I said okay, so next Sunday came around and he says the family had an issue happen in their lives. They're not gonna be able to take you in. Nothing about you is just they had something come up. They can't take you in, so but I have another family for you. No problem, are you ready to go? You're gonna go to church first and then you're gonna meet the family and I'm like, okay, sure, let's go.
Speaker 3:So here we go, me and Sam, and we're just kind of like hoping this one will work.
Speaker 1:How is your? How are you calling him Sam?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Samuel is his name, Samuel.
Speaker 1:Sam is your husband.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:How is he doing at this point?
Speaker 3:I have no idea. I can only speak for myself.
Speaker 1:I mean you said he doesn't speak a lot. At that point Didn't speak a lot of English, and is he just kind of going with the flow and just kind of?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he's learning as we go. He was very smart and he's picking up a lot.
Speaker 1:But this is like like he grew up in Mexico but he didn't have to work the fields and stuff like that Like you did. So he's got a little bit different life experience a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But his life is somewhat upended a little bit as you enter in Cause. Now he's like he had a job.
Speaker 3:It's a turmoil after I enter in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like well it's a different life experience right With him, because he was somewhat settled a little bit or whatever, and so. So that's why I'm like, so now he's just kind of following along with you. Okay, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3:just You're gonna have to invite him to give you his story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just gonna keep absorbing. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 2:No, it's good cause you're giving us a male perspective, things that we've never really thought about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, part of the reason why he didn't want to continue working in the fields was because the land, the owner of the fields, didn't pay us. We worked and did the field work and everything, and he ended up not paying us and complaining that he didn't do the work properly and so my husband's like. This is not gonna happen to us.
Speaker 1:Well, and he just grew up. When did he move to America?
Speaker 3:And he was 19.
Speaker 1:Oh, so he was like 18.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was a brand new.
Speaker 1:Mexico got himself established a little bit, had a job figuring stuff out so he's kind of inserted as much as he can be into what we know as American society, because you're in America, but you're certainly not in American society, you're on these farms.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, it's a completely different experience. So my mind is like he had somewhat loosely established himself you enter and now he's and hopefully I'm not sounding like a turd here.
Speaker 3:Well, call yourself whatever you want.
Speaker 1:But I'm just trying to put myself, like you said in his shoes. Because now he's a little bit of a moving life now, like physically, like you know he's. You know, oh, we got another family you guys might be able to live with and all of that. So it's. It would be interesting to know what his mindset was back then. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Anyways. That's why I stopped and asked where is his mindset in all of this? But you may not even have known because, again, you guys are just kids, you're just Surviving. Surviving. That's exactly what I'm gonna say. You're just surviving. You're not thinking about those kinds of things, you're just moving.
Speaker 3:Just trying to stay afloat Right, right.
Speaker 1:Stay afloat, so okay.
Speaker 3:So you went to church. We went to church Adriana's in my belly, dancing all around, constantly moving around, and so we went to eat to meet the family. And we get off by the beach. There's this house and I'm waiting to go inside the house and see this new family. With the first time, he just the family picked us up and took us to their home and whereas in this time he was the one that picked us up with Peggy, his wife, and took us to church and I'm just waiting. Am I gonna meet the new family here? No. So then we go to this house and I'm thinking am I gonna meet the new family in the house? And I get off and come in and I'm like where's the family? And he goes, you're looking at them, it's us. And I'm like, oh, okay, so you want to take me in. He goes, yes, is that a problem? And then I'm like I don't know, is it? You know, got back and forth with him.
Speaker 3:And it was meant to be. They were the ones.
Speaker 1:And did they have kids? They have older kids, yes, they had older kids.
Speaker 3:They have two sons and a daughter. Okay. And so they had experience about taking in like exchange students from other countries I guess. They're very strong, amazing people. You know wonderful people and I love them, and one of the things that I they're very definite.
Speaker 1:just a lot of compassion, oh yes, the love of Christ flows. Yeah, I mean you can't. You can't, I mean you can't explain that a whole lot different. I mean, you know he's bringing these two kids in, you know into his family, and the compact, I mean that is really kind of living out the walk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and not only that, but like accepting us, receiving us as his own kids, like a treating us like that.
Speaker 3:I was just always like doubting and wondering when is the other shoe gonna fall?
Speaker 3:Yeah and so, and he told me later on that he, the very first time he thought of finding a family for me to live with, he thought of it for, you know, to take me in, but he had to first convince his wife, and so in the meantime he didn't want me to be without a place.
Speaker 3:So that's why he found this other couple. But he had it in his heart already to take me in and accept me in, but he couldn't really confirm until he convinced his wife, which was Grandma Peggy, and as it was going along and the first couple I guess couldn't, for whatever reason that happened in their life, grandma Peggy said, sure, let's do it, and she was on board with it, and so it didn't take very long for me to then enter into their home, and since he had to go to work anyways, I would go to school with him and then come home with him, and someone had to stay in the men's dormitory and study there, and so only the weekends that he would have to sign out, and only in the weekends, for a certain time he was allowed to go out of the facility, and then Grandpa would bring him and then take him back, and then his life goes on every until we graduated.
Speaker 3:And so my husband graduated first and his trade teacher found him a job in Portland so he could get established and get a house, so that when I was ready to graduate and have my baby already to move with him once he had that house established and everything, so he had to leave. And then I was then left in Yahuats with Grandpa and Grandma to stay until I graduated.
Speaker 1:Right, and how much time was that?
Speaker 3:He only had to study a year and I had to be there two years yeah, around that time, because I was pregnant with Anna when I graduated. Okay. And I already had other Anna Wow and Grandma Peggy. Grandma Peggy was the one that was babysitting her, so I could continue studying and learning and yes, we are one year apart, yeah.
