SieMak Podcasts
Welcome to SieMak Podcasts. A family of podcasts of different sorts for different tastes.
Ancasts - brings two long time friends, Anthony & Andrew, that want to get into your head. Tony and Prof. Drew talk about everything from their kids, tech, pop culture, sports....really everything. It's like sitting with them in a room, a car, a pub. You'll find yourself wanting to hang out with them all the time. This is your opportunity to hang with them once a week. Do it.
Cause I Wanna Know - brings stories of people. In depth conversations that peel back what makes them tick and what has inspired them and moved them in the direction that they have forged.
Generation (XZ) Pop - is a father & daughter, Tony & Makayla, that talks all things pop culture from a perspective of Generation X and Z.
The Shellee & Kelly Podcast - brings another duo. The ladies talk wine, their book club for two, tv shows and much more.
We hope you enjoy one of these many options. Thanks for your ear hole!
SieMak Podcasts
CIWK - Tracing Dr. Dan Huld's Resilient Spirit Through Change
Lean in as we traverse the milestones of Dan's life, reflecting on how stubbornness can be both a formidable foe and a steadfast ally. This episode peels back layers of Dan's educational journey, influenced by both parental determination and a move to Camas for its promising school district. We also uncover the crucial decisions that shaped a family legacy, from building a home with the help of relatives to the decision to send his children to private Christian school, highlighting the intricate balance between personal conviction and professional responsibilities.
Our conversation with Dan culminates in a reflection on the transformative power of education and the resilience required to navigate career shifts amidst a global pandemic. Dan's narrative is a masterclass in adaptability, from the early days of teaching multiple subjects to rising as a leader in the charter school realm, all while grappling with the unforeseen twists of COVID-19. Through his story, we're reminded of the enduring strength of family, the grounding force of faith, and the unwavering commitment to guiding the next generation with compassion and principle. Join us for an episode that promises not just a glimpse into one man's life but a mirror to our own journeys and the shared human experience.
welcome back to because I want to know. Today I've got Dr Dr Dan Hold. Hello Dan.
Speaker 2:Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing good. How are you?
Speaker 2:Good.
Speaker 1:So Dan is a newish friend from church, and so this is kind of. This particular podcast is going to be like one I did with Brittany Campfieldfield. You know britney, um, so it's a little bit different than what I typically do. This one is, um, we're going to get to a couple questions from esther perel's game, one of my favorite therapists. Uh, she came out with this game during the pandemic, called um, where should we begin? Which is also the name of her podcast. So this is just kind of, uh, we're going to sit down, get to know each other a little bit, because we don't know each other a whole lot, and, um, hopefully people will find it interesting. I know I would so cool, yeah. So so to start, um, we'll kind of go to your origin stories. So where, where, uh, did your parents come from, where did they meet and all of that.
Speaker 2:Uh, good question. So let's see, I think the unique thing is that my dad is a hundred percent Finnish and my last name is actually Oltenen, but when his ancestors came over from Finland and crossed in through Ellis Island, they actually changed the name to Hold.
Speaker 1:So I'm not really Did they change it or did the like?
Speaker 2:I think they must have. I don't think that it was my ancestors or my relatives. I think they must have changed. I don't think that it was my ancestors or my like relatives. I think they must've changed it to make it more easier Sure. Yeah, cause Holton, but I sometimes I toy with the idea of like it would be kind of cool to go back to yeah that would be yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause I think a lot of like the finished names have like the the NEN, at the end, and so, and have like the the ne in and at the end, and so, and then. I've always wanted to go to finland and they've got such an amazing education system. I'd love to go over there and visit some point. I just life hasn't got me there yet right so um. So my dad is 100. Finish um his parents so is he?
Speaker 1:so your?
Speaker 2:his parents came over, and then I think it was his grandparents, okay came over um, so only a couple generations like okay, yeah, that's why I was getting that yeah, here, here in the states and um, and so my dad grew up, because of that finnish connection, uh, sort of lutheran and so um makes sense I think a lot of like the finnish culture, lutheran, it's kind of one of those things.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, my mom grew up and, um, my grandpa was an electrician and so he kind of would like travel around wherever the jobs were. So he was a sergeant in World War II and so they kind of went around. But she graduated from Roseburg and then my dad was a three-sport athlete, very talented athlete. He played at Jefferson High School and out of college he got a scholarship to go to Linfield play basketball or football or both. So he was very athletic.
Speaker 1:So did your whole family. Just they started at Ellis a couple generations. So did they just move west as the family grew, or how did they end up on the West Coast?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I don't know if I fully know how they got there. My, my mom is, and my grandparents are more kind of like mixed, like european, a little bit of german, scandinavian, I don't know, kind of a mix, um, and then I honestly I think what got my parents in this area was probably like uh, there's a grandpa worked for Sims electric company, does that sound right? There's a several of them around the area and there was one in Roseburg, um, and I know that my mom graduated from like Roseburg high school, so, um, and that they both ended up in Enfield and I think this is funny and it's. I think that, uh, my dad went over to like hang out with my mom's roommate and like kind of saw my mom and was like cause, my mom is six foot tall and you know she's got red hair, so there's just a lot going on there and my dad.
Speaker 1:How tall is your dad?
Speaker 2:My dad's six, six, okay, so, um, so, anyways, yeah, that that's kind of I think. They went over there and then they, they fell in love quickly and so, um, they were 19 when they met and they got married.
Speaker 1:And when was this this?
Speaker 2:was. Let me think so they were. My mom was born in 46. Yeah. And so then, 19 ish years after that, eight sixties, okay, um, they get married, uh, and they've been married since. And so, um, which is there's a lot to that story? Um, but then they, so my mom had grown up Southern Baptist and I, my grandpa the grandpa I knew was always a loving, generous man, but the ma, the grandpa, or her dad growing up, her father, uh, was pretty strict.
Speaker 2:Um you know, kind of roughed up. A few boyfriends, um, really tried to like kind of control the family quite a bit and I never knew that grandpa, um, but I think that was hard on my mom and they they were Southern Baptist which can tend to be, you know, legalistic and I so I think that was that was tough on my mom. And when they got together this is the late sixties I think, pretty soon thereafter- and he is, was he.
Speaker 2:Lutheran at that time or was he anything? I think he was maybe raised a Lutheran but then like through high school and like getting into college and Linfield and all that stuff, Um, I think that my dad kind of probably would walked away a little bit on his faith and wasn't super strong with it.
Speaker 2:It was like something that was part of his upbringing but it was not something that he like identified with. And then you know this is the late sixties, almost to the Vietnam war. Um, I think my dad completed freshman sophomore year at Linfield and then he got drafted at that point to Vietnam and that kind of changed like their trajectory. But because of the connection of like Linfield and Roseburg and my um my grandparents on my mom's side still living in Oregon, like they stayed kind of in this area. Um, now my dad's, like shortly after they, when he was 12, his dad died.
Speaker 2:I never got to meet grandpa on that side and the thing that killed my grandpa is essentially like the same illness and disease that my dad and I both have.
Speaker 2:So finnish people I read this article on a plane once a long time ago when people were settling Finland or whatever.
Speaker 2:In science or nature you have this thing called like a bottlenecking effect, where you get a group of people that are kind of isolated in a geographic area and then sometimes, like the genetic fitness of the population um, over time and over generations, um, there get to be like some flaws in it because early on um, as people are coming, you get some like inbreeding stuff, and so I read this article that really explained that, for whatever reason, through like finland, finnish people settling finland ended up having a lot of cardiovascular issues and that became kind of one of those genetic things that like got passed down over time.
Speaker 2:And so my grandpa died when my dad was 12 of an aneurysm, um related to high blood pressure. That was like undiagnosed and untreated, and then my dad has a high blood pressure polycystic kidney disease and so do I, and so it's one of those trade-offs, like if you're first playing a video game and you're like building a character and you only get so many points or whatever you know, like I think I remember like basketball games and I'd be like oh man, I want the dunker, and so you give them all the strength and stuff, right?
Speaker 2:So like, with my dad being this amazing athlete and me being my brother being these athletes, it's like the trade-off was like okay, you get the blonde hair, the blue eyes the height all these things, but here you've got this cardiovascular like issue that will, I mean, ultimately and eventually kill me.
Speaker 1:So yeah that would be something you'd really have to monitor. Being an athlete, it's almost like you're built to be this athlete. You have the knowledge and the body for it, but the one thing that you really need is kind of killing you, yes, and you need it uh strong to be able to do these things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, yeah it's almost like this kryptonite that you can't get rid of, like you can't exactly it's you your life yeah, yeah, yeah, it's um and it's uh, it's humbling, but it's one of those things that you know as we go on with, like I guess my origin story and the thing that grounds me is you know, if, like if, if I didn't have my faith, that would like kind of trip me out of like. Hey, I have this polycystic kidney disease. My kidneys are at 40%. I know that at some point it's going to lead to x, y and z, because I see my dad doing that right now like he's he's been doing um, peritoneal dialysis and um.
Speaker 2:So that's where they basically fill your abdomen full of um like a saline solution, because your kidneys aren't working. So your kidneys aren't filtering out your blood, the toxins out of your blood. That's their job, because they're enlarged and they have these cysts on them.
Speaker 1:Um and how old is your dad now?
Speaker 2:so he's gonna be 77 on the second, so he was getting up there in upper 70s. Yeah now his dad had only lived until he was in his 50s, so it's definitely outlived well, sure I?
Speaker 1:I would guess with time and technology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know yeah, because I I don't even know that my grandpa knew that he had high blood pressure yeah but one thing where my dad found out was when he was drafted to go to Vietnam, go to the Navy.
Speaker 2:he was working in the I think it's the Yorktown, uss Yorktown over in Vietnam, but he was down in the boiler room. So he's down in this very hot, intense environment and he was starting to have to go see the ship doctor. That's you's now, so he's probably 20 at this point and that's when he found out that he had high blood pressure to the point where it was like 194 over 100. You're basically like a walking stick of butter at that point I mean it's that's high pressure.
Speaker 2:So he got um vulnerably discharged from the military for for his high blood pressure. But then at that point, at 20 years old, he knows that he has it um. And I mean honestly, like you didn't ask my dad.
Speaker 4:I mean he didn't want to be, that wasn't his path, like he was at linfield he was on a scholarship, like he was on a path he was on the path right like he wanted and he told me that, um, you know we've talked about this like he.
Speaker 2:he tried. When he came back, he tried to get back into that and tried to like try out for um, try out for like, some pro teams and things like that, but it ended up not working out for him. He did use the gi bill and graduated from university of Oregon and so, bless his soul, he'll ever be a duck Right. But, um so. So then, at that point it's out of the, you know, out of the uh Navy um graduating.
Speaker 1:So what was his? What was the path that he was heading on? Cause you said their trajectory changed. So what was? What was the path that he was heading on, because you said their trajectory changed, so what was? What was he doing? What was his plan when he was actually in college?
Speaker 2:I and I think honestly and like in later on, this was the path I was on to a certain extent is I think he was hoping he could be a pro athlete oh okay and so probably more in football.
Speaker 2:but he was really good football, basketball and track and so he was on that trajectory, had the scholarship, all the things. But then you go spend a couple of years in the Navy. You're not maybe working out as much, you're, you know, kind of traveling all over the world. You're in Vietnam, you come back. You're not in that like peak fitness.
Speaker 1:Right when you're just experiencing a lot too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as a young man, yeah, and it was a, you know, the the whole mindset around vietnam was so different than you know, like the korean war was, was, you know, kind of a rougher mindset than, say, like world war one, world war two, where seems like the purpose was clear, the mission was clear, it was the success good wins, evil loses, like. But I think the korean war and the vietnam war was a little bit more nebulous and you can't necessarily say that like a victory, and I know there's definitely a lot of opposition, right, so there's a lot of opposition to vietnam. My parents are kind of in this, like I would say, kind of traveling the world, just going around with like the navy and not in a place where they were like really identifying with their faith at all. So they had, I think, at this point, like mostly more or less, like walked away from their faith.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you think I don't know if you know but do you think, with your mom's faith because your dad was, or her dad was, so strict that and I'm sure there was a huge religious component to that, like you said like real legalistic and all that yep do you think that kind of probably caused her to walk away and your dad really wasn't in touch with anything and so it was just kind of like a natural?
Speaker 2:yeah, I falling away like when you think about probably what my dad experiences, I guess with like the finnish people a lot of them are, but it's kind of more of a cultural thing, like when you think of, uh, mexican hispanic people.
Speaker 2:A lot of them are, but it's kind of more of a cultural thing, like when you think of mexican hispanic people a lot of like relation or connection to catholic church, but they may they may not have that like personal relationship with god and so um. So yeah, at this point they're um, just kind of living their life, doing their their thing, partying and getting jobs, you know, hanging out with friends.
Speaker 1:Seventies, seventies, seventies, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So we're in the seventies at this point, but um, I think, as they were getting closer to 30, they kind of started going like okay, I think life is about getting married and having kids. You know, like my dad had one sister, my mom had a sister and two brothers.
Speaker 2:So family was a big part of like their life and I think a lot of like my uncles and aunts and things like that. They were all kind of in that of like, hey, we're starting to have some kids. Like, some of my cousins are just teeny bit older than I am, so that, so that's like influencing my parents and they're going yeah, I think it's time to maybe have kids. And then this is um late seventies, at this point, and um, they find out that, uh, fertility is not working out well for them. So kind of this crazy deal where my mom had endometriosis, I think my dad had some stuff going on too, and so the doctors are kind of saying like, hey, it's a pretty slim chance that you guys are going to be able to have a kid, let alone two kids. So my mom says this prayer and kind of is one of those like deals with god type of thing sure where she.
Speaker 2:She prays this prayer and she says you know god, if you will allow me to have two kids, I will get back you know into my faith, I will dedicate them, um, and their upbringing, upbringing to you right and uh shortly thereafter, you know um this kind of miracle. I mean my, my brother was born, uh, in 1978, and I was born so when she made that deal, what year was? That? Um well, it must've been like 77 cause my brother was born in 78.
Speaker 2:Um got it, and then I came so it was pretty quick.
Speaker 1:So how long had they been trying up to that point? Do you have any idea?
Speaker 2:I don't know how long, how long they were trying, um, but at that point we, they had landed in portland and so my brother, um, my brother was born in in portland and and I was born in portland and so, again, my parents are six, six and six foot. My brother was fairly normalish, like nine pounds something or other, but really really long. So like, okay, we know these are going to be some rather large children, right, right. Also, this is where my mom kind of becomes like the epic hero is this is like eighties, and she's like I'm going to do this without any pain medicine.
Speaker 2:Here's this like six foot that's interesting yeah, in in the 80s she was deciding that she was just gonna not do any, not gonna do the epidural and and here's the thing is, it's real interesting is like one of the family traits that that I have, my mom has, is this thing of like you're not going to tell us what to do all right and so and and the stubbornness and this is what I tell my daughters.
Speaker 2:As I said, stubbornness, stubbornness is a great trait. It's going to get you a lot of places. Not all of them are good, right, but it's going to get you places. And so, like, once we make up our mind on something, we stick to it and we're very stubborn that mindset I mean I can't relate.
Speaker 1:Obviously I'm not a woman, but uh, but I know how my wife was when she had our girl. She's like pump me full, yes. So so that mindset is just really interesting to me. Oh yeah, of just does, let's do it naturally.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not.
Speaker 2:I don't understand it, but I don't have to, I guess so yeah, it's not my thing to understand, but it's interesting, and with such large children, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, that's. I mean. Nine pounds is pretty, that's pretty hefty, that's pretty big kid.
Speaker 2:So I guess it worked out okay with my brother. But then I was born at Emmanuel hospital and I'm. I think my mom knew that I was going to be a big kid. Um, but I ended up being 11 pounds 11 ounces, so at birth I weighed more than both of my twins put together when they were born. And so my mom has showed me an article that actually for about a year or so I actually held the record at Emmanuel hospital for the biggest baby ever born.
Speaker 1:Like length and weight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, both yeah, and then later on there was like a 13 pound kid that was born like length and weight, yeah, both yeah. And then later on there was like a 13 pound kid that was born like a year later or something. But so I started off with a bang, yeah and and quite big. And then my mom is this like 80s, super strong woman. That's like, yeah, I'm not gonna have any pain meds and gonna have this like huge child.
Speaker 2:So yeah yeah, um, let's see. So we were in portland at the time and um my dad.
Speaker 1:So there, so did she keep that deal.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming that she kind of re well, it's interesting because like to her religion my recollection is that he didn't do anything religious wise until I was in first grade so I'm six and at that point we were, um, we had found a lot in Camas and moved, you know, over to Camas from Portland, um, mainly for like the school system. So, um, so you've been in Camas for a, mainly for like the school system.
Speaker 1:So you've been in Camas for a long time.
Speaker 2:Long time. We moved here when I was two 1982. I don't remember a ton about Portland. I remember a few things. One of them is crazy.
Speaker 1:Apparently in preschool I like flipped off my preschool teacher and told them to F off Preschool. So most kids don't do that in preschool. Yeah, that's like four or five years old, yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you recall that, like I shared, my dad grew up in Portland and the Jefferson High School, and so you know my dad had a rough upbringing and the Jefferson high school, and so you know my dad had a rough upbringing and had some language use. And so later on, that was one of the first things I had to work on when I well, I mean he, yeah, I mean he was in Vietnam.
Speaker 1:I mean it's just a whole different culture and world. Oh yeah, very open, you know in the late 60s, like yeah, so I can rock and roll.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so that was one of the things I remember and I I remember a few things, but, um, moving to camas in 82 was like, hey, my parents or my mom that remember that stubborn tenaciousness is. She's like, you know, I think my dad going and getting his education was a big deal and and she had decided that me and my brother were going to get our bachelors, we're going to have solid education and whatever in her wisdom, or now.
Speaker 2:This is the 80s, before camas was known for like a great education system and I'll never forget this because I am a principal now and sometimes I struggle to answer the call, the phone calls. But she said she called up the principal at dorothy fox elementary and he answered the phone. It wasn't his secretary or admin assistant that answered it, but it was. It was him and his name was um principal Dunn, and we had found this property where I think $15,000, you think about property values now here in canvas. So it was on the top of prune Hill and my dad was going to build a house.
Speaker 1:So my dad was very handy, um and there was nothing very little up there Very little Like if you think of the shell station and like all, of that was not there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:All the neighborhoods surrounding Dorothy Fox and none of that was there was all fields, um, and so it's one of those things when, like that, that had a huge impact because, um, you know that principal answering that phone call for figuring out that like Camas school district was a great school district, like better than the one that we would have been in Portland public schools over, you know, in Tigard where I think we were living tight, or maybe Tigard 12th in school district or whatever. But they kind of desired that like suburban life, um, like let's get out of the big city, let's go have that suburban life and, um, we move over. We actually lived in a teeny little rental down by crown park when we first moved here.
Speaker 2:It was like a two-bedroom, one bath. I drive by it still and like I drive the kids by it. Um, and we lived in there while my dad built this house and my dad had built the house that we, that I was born in in Portland, and so this is a second house. So my uncles, my grandpa, they're all working together, they're building this house and I'll never forget. This was probably like my intro to hiking it was like a snowstorm.
Speaker 2:We get those around here once, once a while, once a while, and we're like, hey, it's time to move into the house up on prune hill. And we're down here at crown park, and this is before, like most people had four-wheel drive. So, like my mom got this idea of like we're going to bring our pots and our pans and like our bedding and we're going to walk up prune hill in a blizzard my gosh with uh, I was probably like what?
Speaker 2:three or four at this point, and my brother's two years older than me right and so that that is something that I definitely remember. And like we don't have snow gear, snowshoes, like none of that we're just, you know, probably walking up with, like a jansport backpack full of pots and pans that's incredible in like 1984 and so yeah, because I mean there is u-haul, but not like there is now.
Speaker 2:Yeah I mean she probably just thought what's this up to hell right and that, that again that like stubbornness tenaciousness like, hey, we're gonna do this and like we're just gonna do it and we're just gonna do it and like that, that mindset is like, honestly, probably one of our strongest and weakest family traits you know what I'm saying yeah, it's, sure yeah, so, um, I definitely remember that.
Speaker 2:And and then getting in the house, and I remember, when we moved into our first house after getting married, that same feeling of like gosh, like I can't believe it's here, I have my own room, I don't have to have bunk beds anymore, this is ours.
Speaker 2:That feeling of like safety, security, like which is huge for kids huge for huge for us, us, and then we have access to, I think at that time, like a school district that was, I think, really ahead of like their time and the education that I got here was phenomenal growing up, nominal, um. So see, I guess where does the where does the origin go from?
Speaker 1:there. So, what did your parents end up doing?
Speaker 2:Um.
Speaker 1:I mean we don't have to get too deep into all that, but what? What did they end up doing as you guys grew up?
Speaker 2:So my dad, uh, so my dad was handy, right, he's like built two houses and stuff. So he was working for Fred Meyer meyer as a, as a maintenance person, um, and so he's driving around a truck like maintaining properties and that kind of stuff, and so that, more or less, is kind of what he ended up doing for, for, like his career is is um facilities and facilities management, and so it's one of those guys that could pretty much just do anything or just figure it out and do it pretty much do anything and I've got.
Speaker 2:my dad was similar to that, or at least that's what it seemed like growing up where he. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, he's just one of those dads where he just, he just do anything. Yeah, it just seemed like he could do anything.
Speaker 2:Seriously, he could.
Speaker 1:I mean anything like you know. I mean my dad was like a same kind of guy. When we, before we, moved back here and he became a truck driver, he worked at a local potato chip plant in like a regional potato chip plant in omaha and he was same kind of. He was like kind of the maintenance guy. From my understanding it was just big stuff that needed to be fixed and you know it's just our dad's sound similar. He just I swear he I growing up I thought, hey, man, he could just do anything yeah he's fix anything.
Speaker 1:Fix cars, yeah, fix cars, do all the things and yeah, you know um.
Speaker 2:What was interesting, though, is like so my grandpa's an electrician, one of my uncles is an electrician and my dad is a maintenance guy, so like that was just a part of my family, like the guys provided and the guys just fix stuff right and so, um, but the the bummer part. I love my dad, but he didn't. He didn't always have the patience, and so my brother and I really didn't really get that from my dad, like the fixing things, because he would get frustrated as you often do. Would he?
Speaker 2:try. I think once in a while, but it was one of those things where I'd borrow his shovel and do something and leave it in the rain and it would rust and'd get the lecture and stuff. So I don't know that he I mean a little bit here and there tried to teach me, but it was like when I would see him get so frustrated on projects and stuff. I'm like gosh, I don't really want to be a part of that, like I don't I don't want to hit my thumb with a hammer and you know, I'd rather just go play with, like my GI, joes and stuff.
Speaker 2:Right. So, um, so, as he moves along in his career, um, he gets a opportunity when I'm, uh, probably second grader thereabouts to kind of shift into more like facilities management as opposed to, um, being like the maintenance guy yeah, being the guy that does it right he gets an opportunity to kind of move into, like taking care of the facilities but just making sure that, like, other people are doing that so that was a big change for him and for us.
Speaker 2:So, um, and my mom, prior to us being born, she was a medical transcriptionist and so she was, and still is, like an amazing typist and so she could type, type like the wind, I mean, and so that was what she did before I was born. And then, um, as we started getting to elementary school, my mom kind of got involved with like the school district and worked on the playground and um um and my dad's doing his thing, doing maintenance.
Speaker 2:and then he gets this opportunity and when I'm in second grade, to go um up to the Seattle area and his first kind of look at this management type role where he's doing the facilities management. That was a big change for us because we'd been in Camas Like I, you know. So first grade, second grade, you know eight, nine or something at this point, and then we've got to go up to Burien, live up there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a ways.
Speaker 2:So that's a change for us and it was significant. But I think Seattleattle was amazing. The people were very receptive. We found some great friends, like right away we went up there. Um, like to the point, I I still remember peggy recker, which is it's a funny name that, like two of the nicest people in the world, one peggy recker was like a volunteer at the elementary school and walked us around at the new elementary school and, with a last name like record, you're like this lady's record, but she's not she's super nice and so my parents are still friends with them to like this day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So she's amazing. And then my, my second grade teacher. Her name is Dr Me and again, with a name like Dr Meany, you would think she'd be mean as a kid.
Speaker 1:That's what you're thinking, right, but she's like the sweetest lady ever.
Speaker 2:She's literally like Mary Poppins and probably one of my favorite teachers to this day, so she is the person that taught me about cheesecake. She had a catering business on the side and I didn't really know what cheesecake was. So she like brought it into class one time. I'm like this is magical. And then she did field trips with us. So we went out to like the Seattle science center, we went out to the Puget sound.
Speaker 2:Her son worked at the I forget the name of it the big, big black tower in Seattle that like goes up into the clouds, and we got to go up so far that like you look down and the people were like ants. So that was like very impactful. Lots of friends, lots of good memories in Seattle. He then my dad, got another opportunity, another promotion, when I was at the end of third grade. So I never forget my mom sitting me and my brother down. We've been up there for two years. We have all these awesome friends, we're living our life, doing our thing and my dad's like, hey, we have to move back to Camas and my parents had rented out our house.
Speaker 2:That he built, and so we moved back to camas, and my parents had rented out our house that he built, and so so we moved back, and what was interesting is um was that not so bad, because do you remember when you were a kid?
Speaker 2:because you knew the area we knew the area I had been there like kindergarten and first grade and so, yeah, it was interesting, like um, a lot of the friends that, like I left when I came back they were there, um, and I ended up, you know, like graduating high school with some of those friends yeah um, so then after that, like my dad kind of stayed in that role with fred myers for a long time until I was in high school, and then my mom did the playground thing through I was like fifth grade and then she got back into doing medical transcription work for a local doctor and and then I was I.
Speaker 2:I went from fourth and fifth grade, Dorothy Fox, and then JDZ, which is now the district office, Went there through middle school and then Camas High School and there's a whole lot more that happened in, of course, that time frame, but probably, like I guess, some of the significant things that happened in high school was. So in six, when I was six first grade, we went to Zion Lutheran church, and so this is my mom cashing in on that deal with God. It was like hey, give me these kids, I'll dedicate them to you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right and so so again, I remember my dad being Lutheran. That was like the first attempt back, so I'm in first grade it's before we move. And so then in Seattle I actually remember at the church we were going to up there that in second grade I was kind of a crazy kid, forgot to say that Easy to leave that part out. Well, I did flip off my preschool teacher and stuff.
Speaker 3:So there's some sign there that I might be a little wild To the point.
Speaker 2:when, growing up, I got to take a nap or whatever. My mom had so much energy. My mom would have to hold me down so that I would stay in the crib and sleep Like.
Speaker 1:I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm going places.
Speaker 1:I am full of energy.
Speaker 2:Um, apparently I knew how to cuss at a very young age. You're like I'm a bit of a handful Right. And at second grade, um, it was just kind of like this talk about like baptism or not baptism, cause in Lutheran church it's more of a sprinkling Right. So this becomes a conversation point where, like you know, hey, this is like how you take your next step in your relationship with God and the Lutheran church, like that's our understanding. And so I remember getting like sprinkled with my brother and my dad in second grade and at that point, and to this day, like I think the Holy spirit is so hungry to get into us that it'll pretty much take any any access point. And so that's when I honestly felt like I had a conscience and realized like, hey, it's probably not a good thing to flip off your preschool teacher.
Speaker 2:Right, so that was, that was very significant.
Speaker 1:Oh that. So, even at that young age, you recognize the importance and the gravity of that. Yeah, as much as you could that relationship as much as?
Speaker 2:I could, and I don't know that at that point I was really having that like personal relationship with Jesus, but as in the Lutheran church I feel. I feel the thing like um, you can find God anywhere and God can find you anywhere. But in the Lutheran church it felt a lot like they go to church on Sunday and kind of be good in between and I mean it's similar to catholic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I grew up catholic.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and so that's kind of like the thing is um, and so actually I guess I don't know like picking up stuff, that, and when I was in high school we were like he had gone to lutheran church since I was in first grade. I'm a freshman now my brother's a junior. We're trying to figure out like maybe, maybe there's a different way to do church and like what my you know, my mom had her experience we're not going to go southern baptist. Sure, my you know the lutheran thing was good, but like we wanted a youth group and so at that point we found harvest church, um, up on the Hill. And so I think, to this point, like I have that baptism thing, I feel like I have the Holy spirit in me, but I continue with, like a scene, the somewhat the somewhat like I'm a pretty good kid, I do my stuff.
Speaker 2:Um, I see my brother get in trouble. So like I had an early age kind of figured out like hey, it feels much better to like do things right, but of course I would do wrong things, I just wouldn't get hot.
Speaker 1:Right, so sure, just a little bit more sneaky about it.
Speaker 2:A little bit more sneaky about it. Um, but when it comes to like listening to parents and doing homework and those kinds of things, like I I do those things. You know, we're just like my dad like playing a lot of sports. That was a big part of our upbringing. Ton and ton of sports basketball, football track, baseball, soccer, all the things and um you start that middle school and up through high school or second grade so okay, so you're just playing sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like little little to all the way through all the way through and and remember like I had so much energy as a kid. My mom was like I don't know what to do with this kid. Like let's, let's put them on the soccer field and see what happens you know and this will wear you out wear me out.
Speaker 2:And that that I mean. I'm glad that that happened. But what was interesting is my dad was such a big duck and such a big sport guy. Yeah, perfect. But my brother and I did not really want to watch sports Like we weren't getting. We were going to play sports but we didn't really like want to sit and watch a football game, so that never became. And it goes back to that family strength of like maybe you're not going to tell me what to do Like.
Speaker 2:I don't, for whatever reason. We just would rather read comic books, play with Legos, gi Joes, like we just never um, that wasn't part of our story, but playing sports was was a huge part of growing up and I don't know that we really connected or like did really super well at any one of them. Did really super well at any one of them it wasn't really until middle school started like lifting weights, really getting into basketball, kind of like we're pretty tall at that point sure um and so yeah, around that middle school time, like in seventh grade.
Speaker 2:I remember, and I tell my kids this in seventh grade I was on the c team for basketball. There's like teams and you're on like the lowest team and in seventh grade I start lifting weights and I start working out. My mom was like doing step aerobics in the 80s and 90s you know Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So my parents were always like very active. My dad was an athlete, like that was always. My mom was always walking and running and stuff and so, um. So, yeah, middle school, I really started getting after it and um, by eighth grade then I was well and your body is evolving very quickly, very quickly, yeah and I'm growing like inches a year and my brother's always two years ahead of me growing all the things he's.
Speaker 2:You know, by the time I'm in seventh grade, he's a freshman, and so then it's like basketball starting to get serious for us. Um, you know, my brother has some talent.
Speaker 2:Uh, eighth grade, uh, I'm on the A team now, and now, like at this point, then the team start like my talents are growing, Our brother's talents are growing, like it starts becoming a thing you know, of um, like canvas sports back in the day were pretty awful, but here's these two brothers and like, something cool is really going to happen because we have these two huge guys and, um, that was a big part of my life. Um, let's see. So my brother was two years older, um ninth grade. We start going to harvest church, start going to youth group.
Speaker 1:We're like up into the nineties now, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mid nineties ish yeah I'm thinking that about that right yeah, so like early 90s 94 was my freshman year yeah, um, so we're.
Speaker 2:We're doing all kinds of basketball camps, we're lifting weights, we're playing sports. Um, by the time I got to Amos high school, I think I had stopped playing soccer. So at that point I'm like I'm getting to be too tall for soccer. Um, it's, it's mostly, you know, basketball, football. I'm still playing football.
Speaker 2:I started playing football in seventh grade and, of course, um, if you ever catch me on a tricky bowl, nowadays all you do is go out 10 yards passing the ball, nobody can stop it right, um, as a freshman in high school, I'm six, four, which is like taller than most people yeah are as grown-ups yeah, so I'm pretty tall, my brother's pretty tall, 15, 16 and still have a lot of growing to still have a lot of growing to do, yeah, um and he's a junior at this point, right.
Speaker 2:He's a junior Um, and so so they're just like licking their chops. Oh yeah, you got these gigantic brothers these gigantic brothers, and I mean it was a big deal, but I mean ultimately just to like get to the punch line. We won some games, we did some stuff, but just the two of us didn't really make a difference like back then camas was a small mill town yeah, yeah, yeah um, like I said, I think we found out that the quality of the academics was, like I feel, ahead of its time you know and so people not really figured out at that point.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you think about Camas in the nineties, it was still small mill town and at that point you're just starting to get some of like the high tech coming in the money coming in from people like selling houses in California coming up here and like building mansions Like that.
Speaker 2:transition is all happening in the 90s, yeah mid to yeah 2000 yeah, and when you know the fields that I used to ride around on dirt bikes and stuff, um, that those start becoming housing developments and so, um, camas is changing, we're changing, we're eating, drinking, breathing basketball. At this point, um, you know, it's interesting, I'm still trying to fit in. I did not have a personal walk with God really. I mean, I, I, we had faith, we went to church, um, it was kind of just go to church but then not much in between. You know, I feel like I had a conscience. I knew the things I was doing probably shouldn't be doing, um, but I didn't. Really, I don't know, it was more important to me to kind of fit in and so, like, cussing, like a sailor, became a thing and my friends laughed at it and it was one of those things like the more creative you could get with it the more you know your friends would laugh about it.
Speaker 2:And, um, you know, this whole time I guess, reflecting back, uh, as a young man, I'm looking at my parents and their relationship. You know they've got together when they were 19 and my grandparents and how much they loved each other and I think through that whole thing like I was one of those people that just wanted to meet somebody when I'm like 18, 19 and get married and like live the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:Start doing the thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that was that was always like in there, but I just didn't. I was so shy, was always like in there, but I just didn't. I was so shy, like I literally had this girl that I liked from like kindergarten until seventh grade and we dated in seventh grade and I was so petrified I couldn't even talk to her. Like we broke up on a like, on a note, because like I couldn't even talk to her yeah.
Speaker 2:So I wanted that. I just didn't know how to get there Right, and so that I guess was going on that whole time. So I'm like, okay, I'll just like pour myself into basketball. Um, now there's all kinds of other things, like, of course, during that time technology is changing right, like that's kind of, as we're growing up, things are changing at such a rapid pace. You know, like when we were in seattle I remember walking and getting the vcr and like a briefcase and like bringing it back to the house and, you know, nintendo's coming out. All these things are changing.
Speaker 2:Um, I think the next like really significant point is like going to harvest those couple years, um, and the youth pastors and the lessons, and harvest was more a church that had taught about a personal relationship with god and this was something that that you should do when, when, when you're ready. So I had gone to a couple of water ski camps and my junior year in 1996, I went to water ski camp and it's funny because Andy Tyler was like one of the drivers of the ski boats and he goes to Grace now and I now Andy has like kids.
Speaker 2:but also like I was always wanting that relationship and like Andy was with his wife back then and I looked at their relationship and I was always wanting that relationship. And like Andy was with his wife back then and I looked at their relationship and I was like that's so cool, like they go to church camp and they like help kids out and right, right, um, and so that was right before my juniorth of 96 so when you're, it's interesting.
Speaker 1:So you're 17, 16, 17, yeah, and you see these people. You're thinking about how that looks like.
Speaker 2:You're not just having fun and skiing and all that, but you're seeing this older young couple, but they're married and all of that and recognizing that is that's like a really cool relationship that's a really cool relationship and like that's what I, that's what I want, that's what you want. Yeah, and you're like 16, 17, I'm 16, 17 and so like I want a girlfriend, I want to, you know, like you're ready to be an adult and you've got a good. You know, 10 years before I get there, I was a bit of an old soul, so to speak, but it's interesting that you recognize that maybe more kids do than I think of or think about.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I really thought about that kind of thing when I was that age, so it's interesting.
Speaker 2:And, honestly, almost even back to like elementary school, being mindful of that.
Speaker 1:You just noticed that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I noticed that kind of thing and it was my grandparents and my parents' relationship that heavily influenced me and at a very young age I just kind of like figured out that's what I want, and that's what I want out of life is that monogamous partner to like live life with yeah, yeah, a partnership right, yeah, which, oddly enough, for like most people that are, you know, basketball players and and like they just want to like sleep with girls and, yeah, you wanted to take advantage of that position that you have, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and that's the other thing. If you remember that, like stubborn, tenacious streak was, I decided that I wasn't going to have sex before I got married and I wasn't going to drink, and so those things that, like most basketball players would do, or even kids that I was on teams with do you think that was?
Speaker 1:is that something you picked up from harvest, or your or your religious?
Speaker 2:yeah, um I kind of think I figured out that like, hey, having sex is bad, getting drunk was bad, I'm not going to do those things. And guess what? You can't make me, and so all right.
Speaker 1:So, that's so interesting so it's like exactly opposite of what a lot of kids it's kind of funny, I know so it's a great thought process, though, but I was curious if that was just kind of a cause.
Speaker 1:I kind of grew up. My parents were a little messy, real messy and um, but that was one of the things that I really held on to. There was a lot of things that I held on to and learned, and I'm not really sure how I learned them, but they were values that were not taught to me. Yeah, and I'm, as we're sitting here, like you had some influences. You had your grandparents and your parents, and you started going to harvest, and it sounds like some of that was in you though some of it without it even being a religious influence.
Speaker 1:It sounds like that was just kind of in you and it was kind of me too, I. But it's still kind of a mystery and it could be just the like. I grew up Catholic and then when I was in high school, I just didn't you know well, maybe even middle school, Um, well, no, I started here in high school from Omaha to Vancouver. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I started here as a freshman and didn't really go to church until later on. But I always had that conviction, that yearning to go somewhere and do something, but not maybe having the means to do it you know, and my mom was just trying to serve not survive, but working and we had stopped going to church.
Speaker 1:You know, catholic church yeah um, I think we did for a very short time after we moved here, but my cousins kind of got me in, you know they would try to get me into. One of them went to crossroads and Bible temple over um before they built the dome over there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So he would really encourage me to go. So it's always kind of in me. But the values thing, like the no sex, I didn't drink either, because both my parents did, and so I was the kid out of my siblings that decided I can't do this. Yeah, the others did. You know, because there's two choices, right? You?
Speaker 2:either do it or you don't.
Speaker 1:You don't yeah and I don't. I've just I don't have a problem with it. You know I don't have a problem with people having a glass of wine. They can do their thing. I just can't have it. I saw so much chaos and out of control that I couldn't do that.
Speaker 1:I had the kind of the same value set about the same age and I'm not really sure where it came from. So I'm wondering if you know it was just a God touch thing, like if it was like he's just in me or if it was just just. You know, I I don't know what to put it on If it was just a value that I came up with Because there was so much chaos and opposite of what I'm saying, that I guess it could just be that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or, but I had that same value at about the same age, because Shelly and I didn't. We didn't have sex until we were married either, and that was just something that we held on to so yeah, you know, it was interesting and I, I remember a few points too.
Speaker 2:I, I think in second grade I just decided I wasn't going to have butter on my toes, so so if you're so boring, I know I know butter on your toes, so like my you remember my mom is like doing workouts and like we're athletic and doing all these things, so like I get this like health consciousness of like butter is bad. You know Cause in the nineties butter was bad. Now we know butter is actually good. Right, slap it on, but yeah so.
Speaker 1:I'm like so funny.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to have butter, and then slap it on. But yeah, so I'm like, so funny, I'm not gonna have butter, and then in sixth grade I decide I'm not gonna drink soda. So that's the thing is like, like I said, when I make up my mind on something, I'm like, yeah, I'm only god can change it right, right, that's so funny and so you know, and that that was where your parents really it sounded like they were very physical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, was the eating health part a component?
Speaker 2:of that as well. That was always a part of the journey. Yeah. And there's a lot to that and there's a lot to unpack. My grandma, bless her soul, was always one of those ladies that like, when my mom would show up, or, even later on, my wife you you know I hadn't seen my grandma for a long time that there was always comments about your appearance, yeah sure and so it's like oh hey, I like your hair.
Speaker 2:Oh hey, it looks like you've lost weight and this and that, and so that plays into my mom's mindset and, um, that stuff she's had to work through as she got older, like I think that had a huge influence um on on her and like a lot of the health stuff came, came out of out of that and as a young kid I started kind of, you know, picking up on some of that and like, hey, I'm this athlete and I'm like working hard and I want to be, you know, optimal and or whatever.
Speaker 2:And also, I'm just really stubborn, so I'm like yeah, I'm not going to have butter on my toast, I'm not going to have soda, and the other thing and this is this still is a big part of who I am is that I like doing things right. I like following rules. I like that positive affirmation that comes from a job well done Like later on. I find that like words of affirmation are super important to me.
Speaker 2:Like I know, as a believer, I'm like supposed to help people and not let my left hand know. But I really want my left hand to know and I want your left hand to know and I want your right hand to tell me about it. Like sure, those are my, those are my struggles, but that that like doing things right and being the good kid, like that that was part of my identity, you know.
Speaker 1:How was that, do you think? Growing up, do you? Did you ever put too much pressure on yourself?
Speaker 2:looking back, oh, I, I did and I probably, I probably still do.
Speaker 1:Like an unhealthy amount of, like pressure, like to do well, to do good, to be good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it wasn't. It wasn't that it was like coming from my parents. It was that I valued the praise from my parents so much that that's what my motivation was, and so getting good grades, working hard like um no, just doing all the things like that, I valued that praise and for my dad it was the currency of athletics and you know, like performing well on the field and stuff Did he ever put pressure on you guys to be in sports and a ton, and so that was the thing of like I think we we enjoyed sports and a ton, and so that was the thing of like, I think we we enjoyed sports and we were pretty good at them, but my dad did put a lot, of, a lot of pressure for us to perform yeah and that's one of the things like, as we've grown up, I've really tried to be careful with my own kids
Speaker 2:on that is but I mean the thing is, is a lot of good things happen because of that for me and my brother. Like we ended up doing really pretty well in basketball, like you know, better than the average bear. Um, you know, I was like the mvp of my high school team. I played at clark college. I did pretty well at clark like had that was probably the most fun I had in basketball. Um, you know, basketball is what got me to cascade college, where I met, I met Kara, I got my teaching degree. So like pushing us into sports I think was was something I wanted to do but I I wasn't going to watch sports. Like there's something that's like okay, I'll do sports but I'm not going to watch them, and that was like my little act of rebellion, I guess I don't know. It's something I maintain to this day. Like I will go to any sports game like a.
Speaker 2:Timbers game Heck. Yeah, I'll go a Mariners game Heck yeah, I'll go. But Trailblazers, whatever Seahawks, I'll go. But, uh, trailblazers, whatever seahawks, I'll go to the game. But I usually I just don't watch sports. And that it's just interesting, because my dad would like sneak down to the basement and listen to the ducks game on the radio in the basement. And we're like where'd dad go?
Speaker 1:like oh, the ducks came on you know, so it's funny it was so funny.
Speaker 2:Um, um, let me see so like so, okay, so back to, I guess, big things in my life is the faith journey, right, yeah, so we're right around high school, getting into college and in your continued journey, you know, trying to find, figure out the God thing and try to figure out the god thing. So I'm at water ski camp, I'm seeing the tylers, I'm like that's cool.
Speaker 2:um, so at 16 I decide I'm gonna have a personal relationship with jesus and that's when I think for me things got real. Um so, like I knew that I probably shouldn't be cussing, I probably shouldn't be looking at dirty magazines, I probably shouldn't be making fun of other kids that are smaller, weaker, different. Like I'm doing all these things and I'm like I know I shouldn't be doing them, but I don't really have a reason not to, because it's like I cuss, my friends laugh. You know I make fun of other kids.
Speaker 1:It's like I cuss, my friends laugh, I make fun of other kids, so when you're doing those things, you're getting affirmation in a way, yeah, and I want to fit in. Yeah, it may not be the best affirmation, but you're still being recognized. You're still being seen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as like as a funny person or something like yeah, still this whole time, like I'm wanting relationship with girls, but I have zero clue how to get there, um, and so that, so I become a Christian, um, and then that's a big change for me. And then a next like big thing for me was, like this is the time in high school when they're like what are you going to do with your life? And all I knew at the time was I liked science and I liked helping people. So I'm like maybe I'll be a physical therapist, like that'd be cool, and I think I could, like, make a decent living.
Speaker 1:And where are your parents in guiding you, are they?
Speaker 2:open to you doing whatever you and your brother want to do. They're cool. Support you, yeah but no pressure.
Speaker 1:The pressure was sports, but what you want to do is less pressure my mom was like you will go to college, like that that was.
Speaker 2:That was not non-negotiable non-negotiable.
Speaker 2:So you're going to go to college. I'm still at this point thinking maybe I don't know that I could get in. I dreamed of being in the NBA, but ultimately I'm just not that good and it's fine, right. So they're asking these questions. I'm like, okay, physical therapist I don't know, maybe, and then I kid you questions. I'm like, okay, physical therapist I don't know, maybe, and then I kid you not.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm walking down the halls of Camas high school and I know the exact spot where this happened. So it's where the Liberty lion is now. It's now Liberty middle school, where I went to high school. And I'm walking down that hallway and this is another thing was Donna Cooper was my high school counselor? So Donna Cooper was my high school counselor. So donna cooper was a high school counselor for like 60 years or something. So she's my high school counselor, kind of guiding me through and asking me these questions of like, what are you going to do? And I'm walking down the halls of camas high school and this voice in my head said why don't you be a teacher? And that to me was a shock, because nobody in my family was a teacher. I've got electricians, I've got, you know, I had an aunt that I guess worked as an admin assistant at a school.
Speaker 2:My mom had worked on the playground but then got back into the medical field Like this is out of the blue Like this was not something I had ever thought of and to this day, I feel that that was God calling me into education, and so I'm like a brand new baby Christian.
Speaker 1:And you're a teenager. I'm a teenager.
Speaker 2:I'm 17 years old at this point and that's when I decided to be a teacher and that drive of like once I decide I'm going to do something and nothing's going to change it from that point forward like I'm going to be a teacher.
Speaker 1:Pretty tenacious. I mean, you're a doctor, for goodness sake. Yes, yes, so it's like you went about as far as you could go. Yes, I mean as fast as I, as fast as I could, so um that's. That's um admirable, but I'll I'll let you continue telling the story um, yeah, so that that that was huge for me.
Speaker 2:And then you know, at that point, um then, like things with girls kind of started happening, but each one of these relationships I get into I'm like I just want to get married, which is weird and like the timing's not great, but I'm like you know, and it's really.
Speaker 1:You correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the story it's really about the relationship, yeah, and having a partner, spouse, but but somebody to start life with somebody you want to just start life.
Speaker 2:I want to, and you're so young, you're 17, 18 years old, 17 years old, like, hey, I'm going to be a teacher and I want to get married. Which is wild, and it is. It really is wild, that young.
Speaker 1:I mean it happens. Yeah, you know some kids, but it's very rare.
Speaker 2:I mean, I kind of have just that mindset yeah, that it was really, and I don't know that any of my my friends were probably in the same role. Right, but what was so? What was interesting? After I become a believer, I'm like the friends that I remember I used to try to impress by being funny and like cuss and all that stuff Like so I kind of drift away from them.
Speaker 2:I'm still playing sports with them, I still talk to them at school, but I don't really fit in with them. And then, like the people that have been going to church their whole life and like attending harvest and they grew up together, like I don't really fit in with them. So I'm kind of in this like no man's land, which leads me to just pouring myself into um, the sports in school. And so that's kind of what I did was I just like poured myself in, uh, full tilt on basketball and you know, friday nights, in the rain, I'd be out, you know, practicing um in the street, the street, and you know my friends are out partying. And again, remember, I'm not drinking, not having sex, but um, that was my thing. I just poured everything I could, I lifted weights all the time, I played basketball all the time in the off season so are you?
Speaker 1:uh? Because the way I'm picturing it in my head as you talk, it's like you're almost like, uh, you're just doing this on your own. Are you doing anything with friends? Or is that the time you spend with friends is on the court or on the field or whatever like? Are you having any social? Because the the what I'm absorbing, the picture that you're painting, is that you're kind of a lone wolf and you've got goals and you're doing the thing I, I was a little bit, I would, I would hang whenever I got the opportunity but, generally speaking, like the, the kids that have been christian and together, like I, didn't fully fit in with them.
Speaker 1:Well, because, I'm assuming, probably because they're kind of established and you know they've been friends for a long time and so you're kind of an outsider, yeah, and then my my old friends. I was kind of drifting away from them because I didn't do what your values didn't align. Yep, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it was interesting. It was didn't align, yep yeah. And so it was interesting. It was like I was. I think you could say I was pretty popular, because by this point, like I'm, you know now, like the basketball star, my, you know, my brother, my brother had graduated. Like now, everything is kind of on my shoulders to save cam of sports at the time and fortunately I couldn't but um you know, did you feel I'm gonna pause there?
Speaker 1:did you feel that pressure to be a yeah, I mean high school sports hero?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I. The pressure came from, you know my dad, of course but, but also, like, I think at the time, you know, we were terrible at football. My junior year, we won zero games. My senior year, we won zero games. My brother's senior year, like we were actually fairly decent, um, in 96, we, we won some games and stuff, um, but yeah, camasports was not what it is now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, back then it's kind of powerhouse and it was like oh my gosh, this new kid moves in.
Speaker 2:Or look at these brothers they're really big and everyone was kind of looking for the one thing that was going to make it a change and I actually think earlier on there was some sports teams in Camas that did pretty well, but it was like we get back to that, the glory days. But, in the 90s, there just wasn't much going on.
Speaker 2:Soccer was good, I think, and soccer remained good for a long time, but yeah, so that let's see. And then what's interesting is, because my brother was two years older than me, um, he, he was always kind of doing things first, but the one thing that I saw and this was probably led into like why I decided not to drink and and have sex is my brother.
Speaker 2:My brother had not just made that decision to have a personal relationship, you know, like we did the baptism thing, but he kind of went the other way where he kind of went into the party and the relationships and the stuff and um and and he was kind of all down that path and I'm like I don't like what I see in that, so I'm going to go the other way. Um, but I was just in this space where I'm like pouring into basketball, kind of trying to do my thing, figuring out this walk with God, and my brother came back from a party and I think he was having a hard time with whatever he had consumed. I love my brother.
Speaker 2:And I think that he was having these, these thoughts about, like, what happens when I die? And I think what? And he told me this later that, um, my senior year, I think princess diana died and I think that he that was so impactful to him. He was like, well, what happens when I die? And he's like I don't think it's gonna be good, I'm pretty sure I'm. I don't have a good insurance policy there, like. And so he comes in my room and he had seen me make this personal walk. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're going to harvest church, we're going to youth group. We're doing all the things and it's the craziest thing.
Speaker 2:So he's still going, he's still doing those things, but nothing real personal, like you've made that decision, yeah, decision yeah he's going, but there's, you know, yeah and and this is crazy I I haven't had that many opportunities in my life to kind of like full-on, I guess, lead somebody to christ, and so in my bedroom that night I'm like 17 years old and you know I I'm talking to my brother and he's 19, and he's 19 graduated. Yep, yeah and he's going to clark college at the time playing basketball somebody that you look up to because he's your older brother. My older brother, yeah and that night I let him to christ and I had.
Speaker 2:I had no idea and, like I said, I haven't had any opportunities. I've had lots of influence on people. Sure. Sure To lead my, my older brother, to Christ was a was a humbling, that's yeah, and it is a game changer, huge and impactful Good man.
Speaker 1:The fact that he's your, your, your older brother and you're doing that is pretty incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean just to like fast forward or even reflect back. That was my mom's promise, like, hey, I'm going to take these boys and dedicate them to God and I have a younger son, dan, that is doing it, and my older son has gone. You know a different path. Sure.
Speaker 2:And so, in this moment then and it does take my brother a while to like, fully, like, work out the bugs and like identify in his faith and he still makes some tough choices. We all have our struggles, but you know, fast forward. My brother is now a missionary in India.
Speaker 1:That's incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm just humbled that, like in that moment, god used me, that's so huge, and now my brother's mission is to like reach these 30,000 unreached people in India, especially at 17.
Speaker 1:I mean you really can't understate that time in your life. I mean that's a huge part of that story of where you're at, is your older brother how old you are. Like that's so huge. I mean that's really a big deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's that's the same year that you know God calls me to be a teacher. And so I mean, when I look back on my childhood, of the things that happened, my mom getting me involved in church is such a huge deal because changed my life, changed my brother's life, changed my kid's life changed, changed everything, like that one prayer that my mom had back in the seventies of like give me these boys and I'll dedicate them to you.
Speaker 2:And then, miracle upon miracles, here we are, you know, years later and you know both, just like dedicated to God, living it out, not just going to church on Sunday, like working hard at it, you know so um so as you move on and graduate and get into college, you're, you want to become a teacher. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you start that journey in college, was it so?
Speaker 2:when you start that journey in college, was it? Did it stop at teacher? Then the whole administrator thing like came on down the road. So what did?
Speaker 1:you teach? What did you end up going to school for?
Speaker 2:And what was kind of your goal as you go through college to teach. So, um, and it's funny because the two pivotal moments in my career my mom and my dad were the ones that gave me the advice that got me where I am today, and it's crazy, um, so I decided I was going to be a teacher. I didn't know what, um, I got a basketball scholarship to play at Clark. Um, had a great time doing that. I'm still again wanting relationship, but you know, I'm like dating and things are not. I mean, they're fine. Um, I'm meeting girls and things like that. Um. I met one girl.
Speaker 2:I thought she was like everything. I'm meeting girls and things like that. I met one girl. I thought she was like everything and it turns out she really wasn't. The other thing that I think that is worth mentioning is, like, while I had these like real life influences, I think Hollywood had this huge influence on you know, like what is love and what does it look? Like? And what is happiness?
Speaker 2:And I think I sought after, like the happiness, the comfort, I idealized my grandparents and my parents' relationships, without realizing the true messiness of like what?
Speaker 1:their marriage is the work behind it. The work behind it Like.
Speaker 2:I just had this idealized version of like what. I thought it was right right right um. So, as I'm going through college uh, clark, you know, you're just kind of getting your pre-reqs done, um, I, um. And then, as I'm getting to the end, I'm getting recruited for basketball, and in high school I'd been recruited quite a bit too, but it just ended up.
Speaker 2:Clark ended up being like the best deal, and I'm forever grateful for that because, throughout my career I've been able to guide a lot of students to community college and I think it's just such a. I love that such a great place to start you know yeah um, you know, I've got four degrees, kind of almost closer to five or six, however you look at it. But I have zero student loan debt, and a big part of it is because of basketball scholarships.
Speaker 2:That was a big help. But also, starting at Clark, I would make enough in the summer and get enough with a basketball scholarship where I left those first two years with no debt, and that was huge. And at that point I'm not really sure I know I'm going to be a teacher, I don't know what. Um, so I graduate from clark and through recruiting and all kinds of different things, um, my brother had gone from clark to portland state, had redshirted, was playing in like the rose garden and was actually doing pretty good for portland state and he had one year left. So he had pretty good for Portland state and he had one year left. So he had red shirted, played for one year, he had one year left and we had a coach that was recruiting us. Really pretty hard to go to cascade college, which is this private Christian school with like 300 kids in Portland and it actually closed in 2009. It was a little too small, yeah, I never, I a little too small. Yeah, I never. I never heard of it, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it it was in the same league as Concordia, which is also now closed. Um Warner Pacific um.
Speaker 2:Western Baptist at the time, which now is Corbin university, so kind of like any IAD two level type stuff. Um, when I get to Clark, I've got a girlfriend that I. Or when I get to Cascade, I've got a girlfriend that I had met at Clark and she went to UW and we're kind of doing this long distance thing. So when I get to Cascade I'm like getting closer to figuring out what that looks like. It was interesting because I was going to be a PE teacher and a basketball coach and I was always a student athlete, so I got the good grades I, you know like I worked hard at sports and I wanted to go far, but I always had that academic focus.
Speaker 2:I wasn't like a lot of the guys I played with that just barely pass their classes, like I was. I was dedicated, um. And so I think I met cascade and I'm like taking an anatomy and physiology class and I'm talking to my mom about like what am I going to specialize in as a teacher? And my mom told me that like hey, you should be a science and math teacher because there's more opportunities than being a PE teacher. And if you think about it, that was pretty amazing advice coming from somebody that was like kind of outside the field of education, right, but that was a game changer for me and that from that moment forward, like I was going to be a science teacher. And so I got my degree at cascade and um, biology and secondary education, um.
Speaker 2:But the most significant thing that happened at cascade was, of course, meeting Cara Um. So when I first get there, I've got this like long distance relationship. There's only 300 people on this campus. My brother's a basketball player. I'm a basketball player, like we're well known um. You know my um. That was my brother's senior year, so he was like almost done and for that first like year that we're there. I was still with this girl, so like her wasn't even really in the picture or an option, or whatever.
Speaker 2:And let's see, as I moving along, like, I kind of got to this point where, like I guess I like gave up on that dream, because I'm at this small college, I pretty much know all the girls that are there. I don't know that I really see myself being with any one of them, and so I'm just like whatever, and I was kind of like just randomly sounds bad, like making out with some chick, and so it was not like what I had sought out for and but.
Speaker 1:I was at this point where I was like I could kind of like you get it when you say that it's like I just see you being like, you're doing it, it's nice. But yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like, this isn't really it's not what I sought out.
Speaker 1:It's not what I was thinking about. It's nice and it's fun.
Speaker 2:But and even the the, the long-term girlfriend that I had, like that girl that I had met at clark, that I thought was everything and turned out to be not and it was like a total like lie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had like idolized that relationship, thinking like this is all the things that I had been seeking um, and and it wasn't and and um and um and so like I'm just like, okay, whatever, I can't have the Hollywood happiness or the the Bible cover happiness. So like I'm just gonna do whatever. And so I'm at this point where I've like kind of given up on things and it was so wild. So I I honestly I didn't drink until I was 21. What should I say? Like I wasn't always appropriate in my relationships but never had sex okay yeah, so I get it.
Speaker 2:Uh, I'm editing, um, and so it was. I mean, of significant life events like meeting. Meeting Kara is the game changer of all game changers, and so it was funny because I'm out with some friends. I just, you know, I'm 21 now I've decided, like at 21, I'm like, okay, I'm going to drink, I'm going to have some fun and stuff, and so we're out clubbing and it was the wildest thing, cause, like I'm at upfront downtown in Portland, some fun and stuff, and so we're out clubbing.
Speaker 2:And it was the wildest thing because, like I'm at up front downtown, yeah in portland right and I've had a few and I look across and like and I knew kara, like kara was at college she had a boyfriend I had a girlfriend small campus like I knew who she, was sure, but in the club night I look across and it was like At up front. At up front. One of the lights it's so good.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I know it's just genius. One of the lights is like shining on her and she is wearing she's going to kill me for saying this, but she would own it. She was wearing a leopard cowboy hat and leopard pants and a black tank top.
Speaker 3:That's so good, so good, and I walk up to her after I've had several and I'm like hey, I like your pants
Speaker 2:but in my mind I was like oh my gosh, is that kara witt? And like, and because in that before that she was like not a possibility. But I had eventually, like, broke up with this girlfriend and ended up not working out, so you're.
Speaker 1:So. Now you start seeing girls again. I like seeing girls. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I was still kind of like they're loosely connected to this one girl yeah and like we were going to a winter formal with this one girl. But I met cara and like nothing else mattered, like right, it was fairly instantaneous, like we like after that night up front this is cool. We we ended up going on a group date to like black hawk down.
Speaker 2:Black hawk down was in the movie theaters one of the best movies ever made, right, um, and she'll fight me on this, but uh, she pushed this other girl aside to sit next to me and we talked during the whole movie and I was like, okay, this is, this is something different, like this is different than anything I had ever felt before and it went pretty fast. But here's the other thing that's awesome and this plays into like one of the cards you know of like a story I hope my kids will tell and they will tell you this is I've got a roommate.
Speaker 2:He's a soccer player from Alaska Aaron Savoy is his name and he teaches me to pick up lines at the cafeteria one day. And.
Speaker 2:Karen, I had had a couple encounters and stuff, Right. Um. So he teaches me a pickup line and I look down the table and I see, uh, this girl that she had shoved aside. Her name is Jennifer. Uh and I see Kara and I'm like I'm going to try this pickup line on Kara. So I go up to Kara and I say hey, Kara, so you got to role play with me here, so I'm like, hey, kara, what's up?
Speaker 2:Dan, do you want to? Do you want any raisins? Sure Dan, she said no I don't like raisins.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't like raisins. Okay, I don't like raisins, dan.
Speaker 2:And I say how about a date?
Speaker 1:what did she do that's so bad?
Speaker 2:so bad it's like. It's like a dad joke before dad joke yeah but um, so she thought I was joking and she kind of said no, and then like walked away. And then that friend said to her like what if he was serious? And I was serious Like I, I, I did, I actually wanted to go out on a date with her, but had your game improved?
Speaker 1:It doesn't sound like it, but your game improved at all. I mean, you've had some girlfriends and stuff.
Speaker 2:So the thing was is like I mean at this point I've poured everything into basketball. I'm. I'm, I mean being humble, ish is important, but like I'm ripped, I'm like 7% body fat, yeah, no, I mean, hey, dan, own it. It is what it is.
Speaker 1:You're a basketball player, so you're, you're a stud. Yeah, clearly, yeah, I mean you're playing college ball. So you're yeah, so literally yeah, I mean, you're playing college ball, yeah, so you're, yeah, so my game had improved to the point where I could blow physically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could blow it on a pickup line and people knew that I was like a nice guy and I'm a christian.
Speaker 1:Super charming.
Speaker 2:I'm at a christian college. I'm relational, so like. I mean, I guess it had improved to the point where I could just go up and randomly use a pickup line, a terrible, terrible joke.
Speaker 1:It's endearing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So so there we go and like, literally, you know, we go out on our date. Um, I take her to the Baghdad. We have pizza here. We watch spy games with, um, robert Redford and Brad Pitt. Uh, we wander around downtown Portland because I never know where Hawthorne is. I'm like lost. I'm trying to find Zupans and get her some ice cream. I have this scarf. It's raining, it's Portland, it's February, I think. Yeah, that's rough, yep. And so I gave my scarf to her because it was raining and I wanted to like cover her hair and her to be warm and stuff and so, you know, we have this first date.
Speaker 2:Um, this whole time I'm like this is something different, like this feels different, um, and it was like 2, 2 of 2, so February 2nd of 02, we go out, we're at up front east side, or Lotus East side, or whatever Some other. Oh, I know, portland, portland is just the best Um and oh man. So then she uses a line on me. She's like hey, do you want some of my ice? And so she like gave me her ice while we were like kissing.
Speaker 2:This was like a pretty smooth move, I mean like you could just write this down in a storybook so of course I obliged, and that night we decided that we're gonna. We're gonna date and we're gonna be official right, which, if you think about traditional dudes, like hooking up with a chick right before valentine's day not cool like most guys try to avoid that strategically. But but this is me, like I, I'm all in like all in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just what popped into my head. I'm like I want to get married. This is what I've always wanted. I you know.
Speaker 2:Whatever, I will do all the things on Valentine's day even though we've only been together for like two weeks two weeks, something like that, yeah, but at two weeks, I remember turning to my roommate, david, and I was like I'm going to marry this woman, like I just knew that it was different and significant and worth fighting for, and and and and. Then three, like three months, months in, we're already talking about marriage. Um, I propose, at six months, we're engaged for like a year while I'm finishing up school. Um, at that point I'd already decided to be a science teacher. I'm working towards that goal. I'm taking all the science classes. Um, we get married August 2nd of 2003 and I got through college. Here's another thing I share with students all the time I had a bunch of jobs, right, like a bunch of jobs that led me to my career at Clark college.
Speaker 2:I worked as in the mail room, gathering mail, so I drove around campus in a golf cart and picked up mail. It was awesome, very social job yeah, it's a great job.
Speaker 2:Great job, um, I did landscaping. I worked hard outside in the summers. That's how I paid for my college. You just did it. You just did the thing, did the thing. I'm like at the point when I graduate I'm working in Johnstone Supply, which is like an HVAC warehouse, and I'm making like 12 bucks an hour and thinking that's the thing. And then I graduate in April, we get married in August and I'm like in this time I'm like I can't work at a factory forever, like I need to find a teaching job and I'm trying to do all these things.
Speaker 1:So you've graduated at this point with your bachelor's Yep, just your bachelor's. Just my bachelor's For that for at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my secondary endorsement so I can teach, like middle school, high school, science in biology. Um, and this was another God moment, like, if you remember, I was going to be a PE teacher and a basketball coach. Well then I was just going to be like a biology teacher and um and a basketball coach, like that's what I thought I would be. It was just like at a normal high school or whatever. And I got this gig.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I got got this, uh, this call from somebody, cause I cascade was so small. I had to take classes at Portland state, at WSU Vancouver and Warner Pacific to get all the classes I needed for my teaching degree.
Speaker 2:So this lady that had been like a student teaching coordinator at Warner Pacific said, hey, there's this opportunity down at North Clackamas school district and I think it's worth checking out. And so I got the call to interview Um, and I did the interview and there was this and I'm fresh out of college, like fresh married this is like July, I think. We're still engaged, not quite married at this point, and I'm doing this interview. There's all these people around the room.
Speaker 2:You know principals assistant principals all these people and I'm like, oh my gosh, like those are crazy, and I'll never forget. They asked me what an at-risk kid was and I didn't really know the answer because I grew up in Camas and I went to Clark, Then I went to a private Christian school.
Speaker 1:Like yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't know and so I I guess. But I get the job. And here's the job. I am going to teach for a new charter school in Oregon. I'm going to teach an integrated math and science class, basically like freshman level math and science together in the same class, and I'm going to teach four classes for the teen parent program, which, if all the things that I would have thought that I would do, I would have never come up with. That. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was growing up in canvas.
Speaker 2:Like I didn't even know there was such a thing, yeah, teen parents.
Speaker 2:Right. So this is 2003. And I remember, shortly after the interview, them saying like oh so, since you're pretty good with science, like you could do math too Right. Them saying like oh so, since you're pretty good with science, like you could do math too right. And I'm like sure, yeah, I'm pretty good at math. And they're like okay, good, so you're going to be teaching algebra one, geometry, pre-algebra, algebra two, uh, biology, physical science, environmental science and this integrated math and science. So my first, first year of teaching, you're 22, 23 23.
Speaker 2:I have nine nine preps is what they call them so nine different types of classes that I'm teaching and four levels of algebra in one class and that's because you're at a charter school?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's just small.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the teen parent program was like 50 kids from the North Clackamas school district and then the charter school was just starting. There's like 250 kids in the charter school. At the time it was New Urban High School and then, Pace Teen Parent Program. So that was my first teaching job, which for me so, interesting, yeah, For me, looking back, I'm so privileged that like I got that opportunity because like somebody growing up, you know religious background and all that like I didn't know that teen parent was a thing.
Speaker 2:And remember I decided I'm not going to have sex. So like this was something that was completely foreign to me.
Speaker 1:And I think that I'm just so grateful for that experience because it opened up my eyes and I had so much care and compassion for these kids well, it sounds like if we go backwards, your life to some degree or in through high school is pretty insulated.
Speaker 2:Yep, and um small mill town. Yeah, yeah, yeah like.
Speaker 1:For you, it's basketball at school, you get into your upper class. In high school, you're starting to go to church. So it's pretty, a pretty narrow view of the world really, especially because you're almost more because you're playing sports. It's just it's just that. So you're not really seeing the world? No at all. Yeah, and the funny thing is is you're going to public school. Yep, still, it's not like you're going to a christian private school, right, but your life is so insulated and you have this church component that you're really not seeing.
Speaker 2:I'm not a bigger picture, yeah, and like we would go into portland or once in a while like yeah, I probably even go into portland more now than I did as like a teenager and stuff like.
Speaker 1:um, yeah, so that was my my first job and and that's like really like baptism by fire in a good way, yeah, like that's really opening up your eyes to some real world stuff.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent Like so I didn't know what gang life was. Well, a lot of these kids that were walking this journey had no connections to their boyfriends, had connections to gangs, like you know thrown up gang signs and graffiti and, um, just all kinds of so crazy family stories.
Speaker 1:It was nothing like my upbringing so when you're going through that, is there, is there any talk from administration about this stuff? Like this is what you're walking into now. That's so interesting because I just think you know I have friends, younger friends, that are late 20s, early 30s, that are, you know, are teachers and stuff, and there's one in particular. I've asked her in the past like, well, I've I've mentioned, especially as you go through covid years, yeah, where it's like there should be and you're a principal so you can answer to this. I mean, you've done all the school and you're an administrator and been in administration, but it almost seems like there should be at least some touch on psychology or or how to deal with youth, or like you should have had some heads up on what you were walking into at 23 years old. Yeah, because they knew. Yeah, they knew what you were walking into. Yeah, there should have been some like how, like you're a 23 year old walking into the situation and have no clue no clue or capacity on how to walk through that.
Speaker 1:I mean it's you're grateful for it, yes, and you had to figure it out really fast, but it's like it's really unfair yeah, to you or to anybody that has to walk. Or almost unfair for just a regular teacher at any school to not have some awareness of how kids work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's I mean we had our, like our psychology class or you know our different educational classes and things like that, but it didn't teach me anything about like, well, okay, student teaching you get exposed to students with IEPs and 504s and stuff like that. But like these real life things of teenage pregnancy, drug use, trauma like all that stuff coming out as a suburban kid out of and I don't know what that looks like, but it's messy, messy it should have been at least told to you somewhat.
Speaker 1:It's almost like and I don't you know, I wasn't there, I wasn't part of the motivation to whatever, but it seems like it would have been at least fair to give you.
Speaker 2:It's almost like you're interviewing and you're keeping something from the interview eat you know, or the interviewer might have done that on purpose, because if they had told, me, you would have right, they have told me oh yeah, you're gonna have nine preps I would have been so pissed if I would have walked in, and not that I was stuck in the situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know what I'm saying, like you're helping these kids figure out their life and teach them. Yep. So that's not what I would have been angry about, but, like some aware, like are you kidding me? This is what. I'm walking it Like I don't know how to handle this.
Speaker 2:It, you know it's wild and and honestly, like you know it's wild and and honestly like I, I feel like my mindset in that moment still translates to today, like I get asked to do some crazy things because, looking back at my childhood, like I'm that responsible one, I'm the one that's going to take whatever you give me and do it Amazing Like that Cause. That's, that's important to me and I value that right so my, my first couple years were just crazy.
Speaker 2:Like two weeks in I have a kid standing up and I try to do you know, classroom management and this kid tells me in the middle of class to f off right and I'm like this is her mid 2000s. Yeah, so probably not even mid, but like 2003 2003, this kid stands up and um later on, that student at the time, uh, she was a sophomore um, we became really close friends.
Speaker 2:So when you work with at-risk kids, they've been abandoned, they've been left they've been abused, they've been hurt by so many people yeah, but when a new person comes in their life, their first task is to test them and to see if they're going to stick around.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure, sure, and you know, you see, if you're going to run.
Speaker 2:Had my boss told me like, yeah, you're going to have nine preps, you're going to have like a 40% IEP load. You know you're going to have kids that have had been in car wrecks and have brain damage and like I probably would have run, but I didn't, and so so am I.
Speaker 1:Is there some fairness to what I'm saying? Or do you think that it was better, or maybe somewhere in between?
Speaker 2:It was maybe better or somewhat in between. But the other thing too is remember.
Speaker 1:I'm so stubborn and so dedicated they got the right person that you can and such a servant's heart like you can tell me you will?
Speaker 2:succeed, I will succeed, and so you will figure this out.
Speaker 1:I mean that was a pretty, pretty rough first teaching so let me go back a little bit to something we talked about earlier. Do does the acceptance play into this at all? You wanting to be affirmed or liked, or however you want to put it, uh-huh? Is that showing up with these kids Like? There's that tenacity, there's the like I'm going to do this Because that's just who I am, but also I'm going to. I want these kids to like me or accept me. Was there any threat of that or no?
Speaker 1:Was it more, I'm going to succeed at this. Do you know what I'm saying? I do? Was it more? I'm going to succeed at this.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I'm saying? I do and what's interesting is, like the professionally, like the people that I was seeking praise from was like the coordinator of the program or like the assistant principal that was supervising me so kind of equal to a parent. Yeah, so more from like the authority figures, but like my that fits my job and and my christ-like mission at this point because, remember, I feel like I've been called to be a teacher sure and so so this is what god provides got it, got it and that, to me, that's important, is like I feel like this is what god provided for me and.
Speaker 2:And and again remember. I'm so thankful for this opportunity because the things that happened, the people I met, all in that first bit changed my whole career.
Speaker 2:And so, like I'm I that's what I was going for is like the approval of my wife. Which was interesting is we get married, I get the job, start paying the bills and I'm like, oh, wow, I don't really make a lot as a teacher at this point. I'm making 32,000 with full benefits, full insurance, and I'm and my wife is, you know, 45,000 something at the bank as a manager, like she was making. And I realized, oh, I better teach some summer school. How are we ever going to have kids? Because this was our deal we wanted to get married and have kids. And our friends were like, oh, just have kids and it'll work out.
Speaker 2:And we're like no, like para grew up, or as like with a stay-at-home mom and for her that was a value, that was important, she wanted to stay home with kids and how am I going to support a family in 2003 living? In the portland area on 32 000, and so that was a fairly significant moment for me when I felt like everything that I had shot my shot for in life, every goal, everything that I have worked for, wow, didn't really provide enough to live You're doing really good work like really meaningful work.
Speaker 1:Yes and so that was.
Speaker 2:I think that was a tough moment and it was a tough moment in our marriage too, because this was my dream, and my dream was was not enough, and I think that and you're doing.
Speaker 1:That's the thing is you're doing really good work. It's like you were doing really meaningful stuff and it's just not providing. It's not so frustrating, it's not providing, but the thing is is like this is my calling.
Speaker 2:This is what I've worked hard for for five years to get my associates, my, my bachelors, like this is what I'm supposed to be doing, and I'm sorry it's not enough, but it's what I'm supposed to be doing, which is a tough point in our marriage, and so that's a frustration point with.
Speaker 1:Kara, how much did you?
Speaker 2:I'm assuming she knew that along the way she knew that I was going to be a teacher.
Speaker 1:but I don't think there's just no, there was no awareness of what that meant financially.
Speaker 2:No and like you know, we I lived at home until I got married and then I would live in the dorms and then I would move back in the summer, like I had no concept of like paying bills and right. You know, our first apartment was 700 square feet and it was like 500 bucks a month for rent or something crazy like that.
Speaker 2:But we had no, no, no idea how that was all going to play out. So something significant then happened. So I have actually a really good first year of teaching. The principal of the charter school wants me to work more for the charter school. The teen parent program wanted me to work more for them. So at the end of the year I had the choice to like hey who I and I'm like.
Speaker 2:I want to be full-time somewhere. So I chose to go full-time at the teen parent program and I'm again grateful for that opportunity. But the person from that charter school come back later in my career and continually sought after me, um, and also played a huge role in my future. So, um, so about like two years in at the end of the second year. We're getting to the end of the second year and at the school I'm at, I have a coordinator of our teen parent program and then there's an assistant principal and a principal of the sabin schellenberg school, which is like Cascadia tech.
Speaker 2:And so they're overseeing that whole program that has like fashion design and construction and all that.
Speaker 2:And so at the end of my second year of getting close to it, the program coordinator sits me down and says hey, I'm retiring and I would like you to think about taking this position. So, if you remember, there were two things that my parents said. My mom was like you should be a science teacher. That led to my job and when this opportunity came in, I'm like two years into my teaching career and I'm already being recruited for leadership. My dad said and you're like 25.
Speaker 2:No 24. 24, 24. And my dad said something that I'll never forget is that sometimes you're given opportunities and you may not get an opportunity again and that I think came from from his career and Fred Meyer and his time in like the corporate world. And he told me that and I prayed about it a lot and I decided to accept this job as being the coordinator and still the math and science teacher. So I did half time, half day, coordinating, half time math and science teacher. I did get into teaching summer school, um, and then now I'm like basically an education world, what they call a tosa kind of a coordinator type. I'm like overseeing a program. North clackmas district administration, building administration are starting to notice me. At some point my principal changes at saban schellenberg and the next principal come in, comes in and says you should get your admin license and you should pursue this as a path.
Speaker 1:Wow, you're just a young man, very young. You only haven't had full brain development.
Speaker 2:yet yeah, but here I am in charge of 15 parents, all of their children, the daycare workers and all the other teachers and I'm overseeing all of them I'm 25, yeah so so that was like I was a game changer. And every single year, this guy that was doing the charter school thing kept coming back to me and saying like hey, would you come teach with me, would you come? Hey, you know, I know that you're doing a great job at pace, but like hey, would you come, come?
Speaker 1:back. So you're 25. Are you just doing the thing? Is there any awareness at that age, like people are starting to see me because you do have the approval thing I have by the adults yeah so you know, um, let's see.
Speaker 2:And like, at some point in there, mike, I'm a science teacher, so in 2004 I decided to start my master's degree and this is significant, so I did it through mississippi state.
Speaker 4:I've never been to mississippi this is an online program, and this is early 2000, early 2000, sure?
Speaker 2:so they're sending me dvds. I'm watching these DVDs in my attic Sure. You know, this is maybe not the life Like we buy our first house in Portland it's. It was used as a meth house, Like it's just one block South of Sandy. My wife is a bank teller. We don't make a lot of money. I'm doing this master's degree I. We don't make a lot of money. I'm doing this master's degree.
Speaker 2:I've got this crazy job DVDs. Yeah, it was like teen parents and I'm watching these DVDs up in my attic where they used to make math and stuff.
Speaker 1:And I'm like this is a crazy life.
Speaker 2:So great and so, like sure, I'm noticing that, like yeah, people are noticing, and I then go to Portland state and I'm getting my initial admin license. It's a year long program. I don't even know that, like administrators make more, like that's not why I did it Right, Like I I didn't do it for financial reasons. I did it because I felt like this was maybe the direction I was going, like I'd always been a natural, you know, um, like when you get and go learn snowboarding, they're like they give you a little shove forward and whatever what goes forward. That's how they set up your gear.
Speaker 2:Right when you shove me forward in life like I'm a leader like that's. That came from sports, my tenacity. It came from just how god's kind of natural god built me. So like, yeah, two years in, like, hey, take over this whole program at 25 because I'm old, I'm an old soul, I'm. I've wanted to be married, I want it like that's yeah, it's 17 that's yes, kind of yes, vision, yes, so that so, like for most people, most guys probably know- yeah, you're like 10 years, 5, 10 years ahead in thinking yes
Speaker 2:and that's not normal for guys no, no, I, I don't think I'm normal, which is probably good. Um, so at that point I do, I get my admin license. I finished the program at the end of the program. Mind you, I think at this point, um, I won't talk about numbers too much, but, like I think you know, I'm I'm now the summer school principal, I'm the coordinator of this program. I'm picking up extra days. I think I'm like making 55,000 or something like that.
Speaker 2:And at the end of the program they said hey, did you know that like an assistant principal makes 75,000? And I was like what?
Speaker 4:I had no idea that, because for me it's not like I'm going to be a teacher.
Speaker 2:I don't care if I make 32,000. Oh wow, 32,000 sucks, that's not enough. I'm going to be an admin, because I feel like this is the direction that God is taking me. Oh, gee, I okay. I guess I actually make enough that, like you know, kara can probably reduce her hours, so that is a game changer for us.
Speaker 2:So in this moment, um I get my degree, I start figuring out like well, where am I going to get these jobs? So you know, it's not easy to get in the admin world. It's not easy to cross that bridge. I've been in a teen parent program. I've been in a charter school. My resume is weird, like it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's good experience but. I understand that. It's a little odd too, it's a little.
Speaker 2:It's different, but I mean again but it's really good experience.
Speaker 2:It's really good. So like, like content wise, like I understand the whole math and science um content for, uh, for a high school, you know, and because of my coordinating role, I understand transcripts and credits and like scheduling and all that stuff and like building a master schedule, like all that stuff I did at such a young age. Um, so I had this opportunity and this was a pivotal moment in my life, um, and, and to this point I had like mostly listened to my, my elders, and I did have this one moment where I didn't listen to an elder and somebody that I really respect from Portland state, but it ended up working out Okay, but it wasn't. It was definitely an Isaiah moment of you'll be in the water, the raging river, but you're not going to drown. You'll be in the furnace, you're not going to burn, like I was in a furnace, I was in the raging water, but it ended up working out.
Speaker 2:So the two pathways were North Clackamas school district. Well, one thing that was funny the superintendent said to my principal hey, when is Dan going to lose the earrings? So, so I lost the earrings. I had spiky hair and earrings.
Speaker 2:That was puka shell necklaces. Like that was me in my twenties. Uh, the superintendent is like, hey, when is he going to lose the earrings? So I lose the earrings. I flattened the hair, I you know, I got a haircut and got a job, you know right, sure, big boy Right yeah.
Speaker 2:Um and so North Clackamas. I had this interview for assistant principal Milwaukee high school. Didn't get the job and then I had an interview set up and I almost went to this interview Eighth grade science teacher at Sunrise Middle School and what they wanted me to do is transition to a normal school and be a middle school science teacher for a couple of years then and be a middle school science teacher for a couple years then become like a middle school associate principal, then become a principal and and work this traditional path that they had laid out for me.
Speaker 2:I remember this charter school guy had come to me every year. Well, we had a meeting. It was like a counselor's meeting and because I was basically the school counselor for these 50 teen parents, we had this meeting with, like the superintendent and all the counselors. And you know, I'm at this point 28, 29 years old and I'm like you know, putting out things and saying things and like people are noticing and all this and stuff.
Speaker 2:And so after that meeting, this guy slides me a contract across the desk says come be an associate principal at my charter school. And here's this initial offer is 78,000. And I was like, okay, let me talk with my wife, let me pray about this, and I have this like very traditional path or I have this non-traditional, like charter school. It's this new if this?
Speaker 1:like 2008, it's like a new online school.
Speaker 2:It's a new online charter school that he's starting. I don't fully understand it, and my mentor at Portland state ended up later on being significant person in my life said do not take this job, run the other way I would understand that, yeah, and because charter school had such a reputation and, oh yeah, a whole thing. And it's online on top of that and it's online and she was a board member on this guy's charter school and new things, and so she told me the gal that told you not to told me not to do this so she was connected to some degree.
Speaker 2:She was connected to this guy and she was like. She was like whatever, just run the other way. And so and I I believe that that was sound advice and I fully respect her for saying that, but my wife and I are in this crossroads where we're like 78 000 is enough.
Speaker 1:Well, and they want you. The traditional is not gonna be. It's a eighth grade science. It's not even like high school. It's eighth grade science. So you're still talking 40 or you know whatever yeah, you're much lower, like yeah half or yes, so you're still talking.
Speaker 2:That you know, and several years of that till you get to that point, yeah and and in this meantime, like basically, our process of potentially having children is like all on hold until you know I can make more, um, but again, and I would say this in front of my wife, like it didn't matter, a dollar amount didn't matter to me, like I was going to do what God had set out for me to do and called me to do.
Speaker 2:But that contract, that offer, we prayed about it, accepted it um game changer. And then we're like okay, it's go time with having kids. Six months in, we're going like, okay, something, something's not right.
Speaker 1:So you're around 30 at this point around. Yeah, yeah, 20 is 30. Yep, exactly.
Speaker 2:Um. So this is another big moment in our life of like everything that we've. So we've been together for seven years. At this point, we've done some cool stuff, like in my twenties I got into mountaineering and I'm like I'm an achiever. So I'm like I'm in all these mountains, I'm doing all this stuff, I'm an achiever. So I'm like climbing all these mountains, I'm doing all this stuff, I'm getting these degrees, I'm getting these advancements at work and at this point you have your master's.
Speaker 4:I have my master's, and then I basically have a whole other, like essentially a master's or my initial admin program.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah At this point.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, so like the associates was two years, bachelors was student, teaching was three, so that's five, then I have my master's degree seven years.
Speaker 2:Then the admin stuff. The admin stuff was eight at this point and I'm 28. So, yeah, I crammed in a lot real fast. I accept this charter school job. We start trying to have kids, and this is where our, our story takes a turn. Is that? Um, we did a test here, turned out to be fine fertility wise, I turned out to not be fine fertility wise and lo and behold, just like you know, at this point I didn't know that I had my dad's kidney disease or high blood pressure, because I'm, like, I'm still very fit in my 20s and yeah, I had no idea no, I wasn't doing like high blood pressure medicine or anything right, right right
Speaker 2:um, so I didn't I, thinking back, or reflecting back like my dad had a low sperm count. Mine was so low that, like they were, like you know, we can barely find any. And so at that point, you know, we're, you know what would that be like 2008, 2009, and that point, and so, um, ivf or in vitro fertilization is an option and it's like fairly safe and and effective. At that point, um, and so we start praying about that. But I'm conflicted. I'm like am I praying God? Am I supposed to have kids?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there's so much with IVF. This is how I'm built, so maybe yeah, right, sure.
Speaker 2:And so you've got this like vision of what marriage is supposed to be, what life is supposed to be, what life is supposed to be. And then God is saying, uh, no.
Speaker 1:Was there. Yeah, I mean I'm assuming, but I'll ask did you guys talk about that? I'm sure you talked to, cause I've heard stories uh, more women that you know it's harder for and they do this thing and it's over and over. There's one gal, this old podcaster, that I used to listen to where it was like. When do you get to the point where you're like maybe I'm just not, maybe I'm just not supposed to have kids, like yeah you know what I'm saying like I understand those questions.
Speaker 1:I've never had to deal with that, shelly, and I didn't have to deal with that, but that was that's what goes on in my head. It's like, well, maybe like like um, uh, um, when a woman loses a miscarriage, yeah, that happens a lot.
Speaker 2:That's part of nature Yep.
Speaker 1:And it's a very hard thing for them to uh deal with and all of that. I mean, I would never understand that, but it's actually just what happens. There's a lot of that happens, yep, but there's such a stigma around it and not, oh, this is just happens. Yeah, it's probably the same thing for infertility, and we figure out the science and how to do it, but how much talk did you guys have about?
Speaker 2:well, maybe this just isn't the plan for us I think a lot, but I think too all of the, I guess, the barriers or the, the controversy or whatever with that, like remember, I'm such a determined person, person and and so is kara, and so set on like I'm gonna be a stay-at-home mom I'm gonna get married, I'm gonna have kids, and actually there's, there's more to all of that. Like kara actually didn't, that she was going to get married because her upbringing was was not good. Like divorce, trauma, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, I mean, that's her story sure, yeah, yeah sure but, um, he pushed through a lot of stuff, so dedicated on like we really want to have kids and so where we settled on this was okay. If, if in vitro is not going to work, then maybe that's God saying we can't have kids, but God allowed science to find understand this process, and if it's not going to work, it's not going to work.
Speaker 2:So we move forward with IVF. Um, so we move forward with IVF, but that, for Kara, was a significant a sig. That time period was significant because it was like everything that you had thought God gave you a solid no. And and when? When God does that well, it's easy to celebrate the yeses, but when God is like, okay, here's everything that you thought you would do, and then, um, actually no, um, it's not going to go that way.
Speaker 1:So I think I misunderstood, but what I heard first time. So she and you tell me how this plays in, if it does at all. But what you said kind of sparked it. So she's growing up and as she becomes an adult she's kind of thinking I'm not going to be a parent. So now she finds this amazing guy and he's can't have kids. So did she like that? Was a confirmation for her.
Speaker 2:but well, maybe this is, maybe I'm right, or maybe I wasn't, because of this thing you know, what I'm saying you know, yeah, going like it was, it was a, it was a big mess, that's a lot of oh yeah, I mean it was a big mess inside with with her and her feelings and and because that's like confirmation.
Speaker 1:What I heard from you and maybe I misunderstood on what you were actually saying, but what I heard, what I took in there for a second, was that that was the confirmation for her that she's not supposed to because she's like I'm not having kids and then she finds this guy that can't, and so that's what I thought I think she flipped so she didn't want to get married because she didn't want a broken, messed up marriage. So it was more of a marriage.
Speaker 2:But, once we got married and we worked through some of our stuff and she's like, okay, this is actually what it's supposed to look like she's meeting my parents, my grandparents, Like she's like changing and during that journey she probably always wanted to have kids got it, but didn't have a good example other than her grandparents.
Speaker 2:Other than her grandparents who stayed together until, like her grandpa, died. You know, like that for her was, was her example, or like some other mentors or people in the church. But I think then having children became so important, it became identity and we had had friends that had had miscarriages and we had had friends that have gone through lots of struggles.
Speaker 2:We had friends that had kids ahead of us. All of our friends at church are now in that phase where we've gone from um bridal things and weddings well, you guys waited for quite a while, longer than most you know.
Speaker 1:Christian people do married at 23.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're having kids now at 30 yeah all of our kids. All of our friends are having kids, so there's a lot of pressure yeah at that point from like our expectations from the community's expectations from like you know, my brother's not married yet. So like, even in a certain sense from like our parents, of like wanting grandkids and you've been together for seven years. When are you going to have?
Speaker 2:kids it's a lot and and then, and then. No, like you can't, there is like less than a 25 chance that we could get pregnant naturally. So, if we are going to bring kids into this world, the only way we get there science, and which is again something I still think about, struggle with.
Speaker 2:Uh and I mean even things I still probably haven't processed. But as we move forward with with IVF like Tara is, you know everything's working there. Once we get, um, get the sperm going, all that stuff, um get the process going, all the shots, all the things, like we're moving forward and we just plow through so much stuff that we don't even I don't know, it was just like the dedication to having kids and our mindset just became like hey, if it's not meant to happen, it's not going to happen. But we got this one shot, we get viable embryos and we decide, um, we're going to have two, two embryos put in died.
Speaker 2:Um, we're gonna have two, two embryos put in, and for us it was like a confirmation that like okay, so we're gonna give this a shot and if it works, then we've had friends that have like tried ivf, like three or four times and at that point.
Speaker 4:Then you conclude like okay I'm not supposed to have kids, sure so everything works out.
Speaker 2:the first time we're pregnant. We find out we're pregnant in July. This is like a huge deal, game changer. Big relief, big relief, and we're pregnant with twins, and so you know, at that point I've got this job, we've got the kids coming, we're living in portland in this old meth house, all right, which, which this? I forgot this part of the story. But my, my grandpa was an electrician. Um, you know, I'd retired yeah but he's the one that started teaching me about electricity and remodeling and my dad is like not my dad anymore.
Speaker 2:Now we're becoming friends and so my grandpa and my dad, take me under their wing and start teaching me all the things and so like when I and I'm starting to have this success at work and I'm starting to have these things and you know I'm climbing these mountains and I'm starting to have these things. And then you know, I'm climbing these mountains and I'm climbing these mountains with my parents. Like my relationship with my parents completely changed in my twenties and we became like best friends, we, you know.
Speaker 2:It was the shift and um uh, where was I going with all that? So you know, all of that is going on and things are changing and I'm figuring out the remodeling in the house and we're fixing this place up. Kids are on the way and let's see we'll fast forward. So, paris, we're like 30, 34 weeks in, and with twins, full term is 36 weeks. Okay.
Speaker 2:So they're due in like April or something like that, and my there's. There's had been some rumblings with my boss in this charter school. So, like in in those days when you open the charter school, you got a $500,000 grant. Well, my boss had opened multiple charter schools and so had multiple $500,000 grants.
Speaker 2:There had been some rumblings that there had been some financial mishandlings. That became so. My first year in, I was a vice principal of a school down in the eugene area, um, and so there was a lot of travel associated with that. But just like my job is in the teen parent program, like I, you know, demonstrated success, I worked hard, I I kind of shone above other administrators within the system, um, at the end of that first year, he said I would like you to be our human resources director, and I'm like 29. Um. The rumblings had continued. There was even newspaper articles that like mishandling of funds, this and that, and I'll never forget that in February of 2010.
Speaker 1:This is the February before your kids are born.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he sits us down and says we're $2 million in debt. I'm going to take over our Washington school. Good luck fixing it. And again, I'm at this junction point in my career where I have, where I'm like one year as a assistant principal, one year as an HR director and a charter school. That's like got all this debt and it's falling apart and he's being indicted. And my gosh, um, our office is where we were renting and Clackamas is like locked and the feds are investigating his use of federal funds and, like me, you can read about all this in the newspaper.
Speaker 2:and my kids are due in like a month and I'm a human resources director and I am now left with figuring out who gets a 30% pay cut, who gets a 60 pay cut, my lord, who loses their job because five of the schools voted to close? Um, as soon as all this came up. So then in april, in the middle of the school year, you have no enrollment because you're closed, so you have no revenue to pay employees. And all this time I had told my boss I'm like, just give me a budget, give me a sum of money, I can manage it.
Speaker 2:Like I was doing that at the teen parent program I got this, just let me do it. And that never happened and I'm actually super glad because I could have gone down with all of it. So everything that was going on, um, this boss, was kind of this round shaking, life-changing moment for me and I think all around me, you know, people were losing their jobs, we weren't able to pay people, there was bills that were unpaid. It was just, it was a something you never thought you would go through. It was like being front and center for Enron or something like that, but obviously on a smaller stage.
Speaker 2:So in that moment I distinctly remember being like okay, I've been an administrator for a couple years and do I stay in this crazy charter school world where all this stuff could happen, or do I go traditional? And I distinctly remember God kind of giving me a message I've got you right where I want you, and that was pretty clear to me. But I was like, gee, thanks God. Like I don't have a job and my kids are going to be born here pretty soon, and that was pretty scary. But I trusted God pretty soon and that was pretty scary, um, but I trusted God and I think, as I reflect back, like he ultimately delivered and provided more for me in the next decade of work than I could like ever imagine. Um, so, looking back, that was just a huge moment in my life. Um, my kids came shortly after all of that stuff came out and that was a change.
Speaker 1:How did Kara do through all of that?
Speaker 2:It was hard. It was really hard on both of us.
Speaker 2:Because you got babies coming and we literally were one month from having our babies and because I was kind of doing like human resources for a bunch of the schools, well, like five of the schools had voted to close and so basically I didn't have a job and I had to drive around to a couple of the smaller districts that we were working with and kind of piece together a job and there weren't a lot of students left. After that a lot of students had been consolidated and come a few of the schools that stayed open.
Speaker 2:Um, and Kara is definitely one of safety and security is important to her and so it was just, uh, really gut-wrenching, just like, hey, you've got kids on the way and you don't have a job. That's definitely a moment to gain interest on God and friends and your community. Um, like I said, god really delivered. So I ended up picking up a couple of part-time jobs for several different schools. Um, and it was. It was just like, just like what I had said to my boss. I said give me a budget, give me something that I can manage. I think I can do this.
Speaker 2:So in a short amount of time went from hardly any students in one of the program to a couple hundred. And I'm hiring teachers, I'm mentoring teachers, hiring teachers, I'm mentoring teachers. Um, and one of the smaller schools I was working for was growing and said, hey, we want you to come be full time and but you got to leave the other two schools. So that was after a year and that was kind of hard because I I like to stick with something until I see it through. But two teachers I had hired were like ready to step up and principles, and so I recommended that the boards do that and those two people are still principals of those school. Wow.
Speaker 2:One of them has 500 kids in it, the other one has two 250. They've been going strong for, like the last, whatever that is 15 years or something.
Speaker 1:So there's one thing that I just I want to just touch on and then we can start moving forward out of that. Do you think the guy that ran all this, what do you think? At the beginning the intentions were good and the money just you know, he just saw the money and or do you think he was, you know, kind of corrupt from the beginning.
Speaker 2:I think honestly, originally the intentions were good, but when you open 13 different charter schools and each one comes with 250 to 500,000, I remember when he hired me it's like I've got more money than I know what to do with. And then, over a year or two, he figured out what to do with it, right. And then, over a year or two, he figured out what to do with it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And as the feds came in and investigated, cause all the federal grant money. That's all federal money. And so they come in and the craziest thing started turning up as they were doing their audit, you know um. There was a moment where, uh, my board chair said did you, did you know um?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was just going to ask that that we own a $14,000 tractor in Fossil Oregon and I said, no, I had no idea. And so I remember when I had asked my boss like, hey, just give me something to handle. And I'm just so grateful that I didn't, because that could have been really bad.
Speaker 1:So Did you get? Did you all get? Or you get questioned when they investigated him? Were you guys given the third degree too, and did you know about this? Were you in on this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and fortunately it was a pretty tight circle that was really involved with the things he was doing the moving students, the questionable purchases it was a pretty small group. So fortunately, doing the moving students, the questionable purchases it was a pretty small group. So fortunately the kind of building level administrators were able to move forward and save a lot of the schools and the eight schools that stayed open. They're still open and there's literally thousands of kids in those schools.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:So it was a crazy moment. And in 2011, oregon changed charter law for more accountability and that's kind of, I think, how things go. And similar things happened in Washington around that time, where virtual schools were so new. Nobody kind of had the regulations in place. Nobody kind of had the regulations in place. And so you know, as I guess I moved forward in my career, those moments of I have you right where I want you at first didn't feel very good. But as I began to continue to trust in God and raise my kids, we were living in northeast Portland. Um, we were always happy when we were there. There's a lot of dangerous things happening around us a lot of bad things.
Speaker 2:Um, I won't, I won't spend too much time on that. I'll just say that there was a lot of things happening. Uh, my kids very active, very active, very active. Um, you know, I'm kind of working these like part-time jobs. It starts settling down into one school system, Baker Charter Schools and I'm now a full-time principal for Baker Charter Schools and after everything kind of split up, we just ended up having a couple of kids in Eugene, a couple of kids in Portland, some kids in Central Oregon and Eastern Oregon, and so we I kind of of like, we were like statewide and so we had kids all over the place, we had teachers all over the place and I distinctly remember my my boss at the time, who was my friend, kind of going through all that split up.
Speaker 2:Um, he sat me down at one point and was like, hey, how would you like to do what you're doing but make more money? I was like it's a weird bitch, what? What are you up to? And he's like I'm gonna go take a job in idaho and I'm gonna recommend that you become the director of baker charter schools. And that was shocking to me because I was really close friends with this guy and we were sitting at that point we had moved back to Camas.
Speaker 2:And for me in that time, kind of getting more stable at work, we were able to get a house in Camas. But because of all the things going down around us and your focus changes when you have kids and you know just see things differently and we were like it's time to get out of Northeast.
Speaker 1:Portland.
Speaker 2:And we had this amazing opportunity. We kind of it was like 2011. So we just like barely got out of our house with, you know, not having to do a short sale or anything, and but nice little three, three bedroom, two and a half bath by camas high school, and my boss and I were sitting up in my office when he, when he told me this and that was, that was a game changer. But like I could never, ever imagine, like what God would do next, um, both in like our marriage, with our kids, with work, like I just had no idea. Um, it was crazy, crazy, um. So so that ended up happening.
Speaker 2:I became the director Baker charter schools. Um, I think this is, uh, 2011, 2012, in that school year, and my very first year was the 12-13 school year where I was in charge of this statewide system that was an online school, as well as a handful of kids that were doing basically running start, but in the Oregon you kind of do it through the charter system, and so they go, they take, go to community college and they get high school credit. So so I inherit this school and I think at the time there were probably about 300 kids in the online school and maybe 50 in the early college and, like I said, I mean God said I have you right where I want you and I didn't get any other instructions. So I'm like cool, I'm going to embrace that. And what was crazy is, over the next um, the next decade, we, we and my team, um I think I credit most of it to God through that school, from 300, uh, to 3,200 by the time I left. So it was pretty tremendous to take part in that. And again, it was like I would have never seen that coming, because at one moment I called and I was like, okay, how many kids do we have? It's like 15. I was like, wow, so I guess I'm going to be the teacher, the counselor, the you know everything.
Speaker 2:And so to go from those very humble beginnings and and like kind of in a sense of Phoenix rising out of the ashes of this like just mass of fraud and all of that, but honestly, coming out of that being a person that's honest and truthful and transparent, listens, it created this environment where I could thrive and I could thrive and grow as a leader and I ended up being really responsible with money, with finances. I gained the trust of our school board. I gained the trust of Baker school board, um, and so that was just a incredible journey, going from like 300 to 3,200. We had eight student centers like all over Oregon that I helped open remodel, and so it was just really amazing time in my life, um, I will say like in the beginning, having kids and going through I mean all of that were some of the hardest, most unhealthy years of my life, doing lots of travel, sleeping in motel sixes because I was trying to be frugal, waking up with itches the next morning eating McDonald's, so you were constantly going around the state.
Speaker 2:Constantly going around the state. So it was a lot of travel. I think shortly before I left I was doing about 25,000 miles a year and I was gone overnight at least two or three nights a month. Um, so that was. That was hard on Karen. It was hard on kids. Like the kids miss me. They're like dad, why are you leaving?
Speaker 2:right so I think that, even though you know God had built this amazing school, I'd been a part of it. It was this crazy journey. We'd done all this stuff. Um, it was right about 2020 covid covid comes along and I was kind of at the point where I was getting a little restless and, even though it was a really challenging job, the travel was getting to me, was getting to my health, it was getting to my family I just was wearing on me and so where, um, where are these schools at?
Speaker 1:like the physical ones, right, are they like? Are they? Because it's all charter? I'm just trying to. It's. It's such an interesting world. Everybody knows about charters and have heard about charters and and all of that. But my kids went through, you know, public schools and so really the only time I ever heard of charters with was within a church or at our church. Yeah and um. So it's like this world that's known but really I have no clue about it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Like it's such an interesting. It's such an interesting niche that people do and I and I understand it to some degree, but like the physical, were they at churches? Were they? Because some of it's online?
Speaker 2:you said, yeah, some of it's online so some of it's remote some of it's at the community college so some of it right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, are those the locations?
Speaker 2:so those are. And then what are?
Speaker 1:you visiting? When you're going around, are you visiting families? Are you?
Speaker 2:yeah, all the above, the, the online school, was really structured around doing home visits, and so I would go and do home visits and so I've been in homes all over oregon meeting with kids.
Speaker 2:But what I did was I had this vision of more hybrid learning, and so hybrid is where we go to a physical place sometimes and we do our work remote from home. And so, um, I had opened up over the course of that decade, um as director and then eventually superintendent of that school system as it grew um, eight different physical locations. But we had two in portland, we had a salem eugene, uh roseburg, uh Roseburg, bedford, central Oregon and Eastern Oregon. So in that amount of time, uh, we opened up you know kind of these retail spaces anywhere from like kind of 1500 to 2000,.
Speaker 2:Maybe 3000 square feet.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:There was almost always like a lab where kids could come and get live help. Um, there were rooms where teachers could do meetings with kids. That was where we would do our testing, our state testing, just to make sure that kids are doing the test and it's authentic.
Speaker 1:Would you say most of these families are Christian families. No.
Speaker 2:Not even close, or half or um, I wouldn't even say it's half.
Speaker 2:I think what's interesting about oregon is the charter law had been around since 99 okay and so charter schools have been around for a real long time and probably the reason you don't hear about them a lot over here is we didn't have charter law until 2012 in Washington, and then the thing about charter schools is is a lot of them end up being non-union, and so when charters were approved here in Washington by the voters, the, the teacher's union was really, really against them. Yeah, and so they found some technicality. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so there's not. There's a lot of limitations on charters in Washington, but there's a whole other section of the law called ALE, which is alternative learning experience, and that's where a lot of the online schools and hybrid schools and all the kind of out of the box type of schools are all AOE schools in Washington, and so the charter world is very different. The charter is basically a contract between an independent school that has its own board and a nonprofit. They're required to be a nonprofit and the charter just spells out how the agreement's going to work. Profit and the charter just spells out how the agreement's going to work and the benefit is is the school district that sponsors generally by law in Oregon gets to keep a certain percentage of the school funding.
Speaker 2:Then the charter school has to operate on the rest, and so over that decade that I was growing the school from 300 to 3000, baker School District made millions. From 300 to 3,000, baker School District made millions of money every year. They were also very generous as we grew, they negotiated with us and they gave us more than even what was in the charter. So it was a really kind of mutually beneficial relationship and had a great relationship with the Baker school district superintendent, the CFO. Um, because they knew that we were changing lives in Baker city, so that eventually became our our. Our motto is changing lives since 2009. So that, yeah, but that's kind of a little bit about charters, and here in Washington it's very different, it's ALE and so, anyways, I guess I was kind of to that point in Oregon where I felt like I had kind of done everything that.
Speaker 2:I could and I was kind of getting a little restless.
Speaker 1:So we're in a COVID year.
Speaker 2:So then COVID hit and um, I had been living in Washington since 2011. And in 2012, when charters were approved, I actually went to Camas school district and I was like, hey, I'm doing all this cool stuff over in Oregon. I think I can help you. Um, and it never really materialized because I had talked to Mike Neerland and then he like retired a year later and the assistant superintendent just now became the superintendent, and then the union really changed the rules on how charters worked in Washington and and then at that point I just really started pouring everything into into Baker Charter Schools. And then at that point, I just really started pouring everything into into Baker charter schools and, um, but yeah, covid came and so, like I had always had this desire to work in my own community and there were times like where opportunities would come up and I might apply for them and it didn't work out.
Speaker 2:Um, and I had wanted that online school here in Kamas since 2011, 2012 in that area, and when COVID hit, at that time I was on the citizen advisory committee, which is just a volunteer group of parents in the community. My kids were going to Lackmas Lake Elementary, I think I started getting on different committees for the school district and I think they had seen my resume but there just hadn't really been like a good fit for the jobs that came up, um, and so anyways, uh, are they?
Speaker 1:did they see your resume um the same way they would an administrator in a public school?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, even though at this point I have 16, 17, 18 years of experience, yeah, of teaching admin being superintendent, all the things I have my head on it's an accredited school, but they just don't see it it's not. It doesn't translate and so I kind of knew that if I was going to kind of make the leap across the river, and you have the degree yeah to teach, and so you have all the credentials that I have all the credentials, and at that point I had my doctorate.
Speaker 2:So oh yeah, so I had my doctorate in 2014 and I kind of pushed my way through that quickly so that I really didn't want to have that impact the kids. So they were four when I got done with that and I thought you know, gosh, with a doctorate and all those years of experience and all the stuff I was doing it would it would work out.
Speaker 2:But I think that's the thing in life is, when you think the timing is right, it may not be right. Like it, god has a different plan, and so I think, um, I just had to wait until, you know, his plan came and that sort of came through a pandemic, uh, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm. It's cool that you you did the committees and the yeah the citizen committees and the advisory boards and all of that did you do? All of that? It's knowing you the little bit that I do. It sounds like you would have done that no matter what, because that you just care about kids and it's just kind of what you do. Yeah, but it also I'm assuming and I think you were starting to allude to it that it started getting you seen as well and known a little bit.
Speaker 2:it did community and what was interesting is, I think what got me on there was, you know, being a conservative. There was one moment where I went to this, went to the school board to testify, and in that moment, um, even though I had wanted to work in camas, I I felt that I had these convictions and I wanted to share them with the school board about something that had happened, and in that moment I thought, oh geez, I'm never going to get a job with Camus. And so I had kind of like brushed things off and I was like I think it's important to share my convictions, but at that point it gave me an opportunity to end up meeting with with Jeff and forming a bit of like partnership or just a friendship with with him, and I would have never, never guessed in that moment that a job would have actually really materialized. Um, so, when, when COVID came, um, I had been running an online school since 2009, so I am, you know 10.
Speaker 1:you kind of know how it works yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. Um, and it was. It was a wild time. Um, you know, things were changing quickly, but, being just a generous person, um, I really I will give anything and everything away for free, and so, any, I was zooming and talking to people probably four to five hours a week outside of my work hours, just to be like, hey, this is what we do here's all my stuff.
Speaker 2:Here's my whole system. I made a slide deck that kind of captured everything, um, and I was just meeting with anybody and everybody that would listen and I'm like, hey, we've been doing this for a long time, I think we can help, and so that was my heart going into COVID. It was a challenging time.
Speaker 1:And you had people listening to you. They wanted to because they were kind of forced into this thing, not knowing anything.
Speaker 2:Forced into it. And at that point you know a lot of the success and all the hard work that we had put into those schools like they were. They were massive. I mean, we were one of the biggest schools in oregon, um, but at the same time we were getting number one non-profit to work for. Our graduation rate had gone from 18 to 75.
Speaker 2:I mean, we had done a lot of things and so people were listening and, um, and so one of those people was was Jeff, but also, uh, my good friend Derek Jake was. So Derek was the CCE director at Camas and had gone to Greece and he had been friends for a while, um, and he just kind of asked me like, hey, what do you do for this? And I'm like, boom, here's my whole thing. What else do you need, you know? And then you'd be well, what about? What about this? And I'm like, boom, here's my whole thing, you know whatever you need. And so I had that attitude with, with Jeff and with Derek, and I'll never forget this, that, um, and one moment Jeff was like, hey, january of 21,. I think in December.
Speaker 2:He had said hey, dan, would you have time to Zoom, like maybe after the holidays? I said absolutely Sure, yeah, no problem. So we set up an appointment. And on that appointment he said you know, I know, I think you know that we've started an online program during COVID and my friend Derek was running it and I think we just may have a job for you. And he kind of asked me like funny enough, like sheepishly, you know, would you ever consider coming over here and working? And in that moment I was like, oh my, oh my gosh. Yes, because I had wanted it for like almost a decade and he's, so people understand jeff yeah was the superintendent he's the superintendent of
Speaker 2:camas public school of camas school district. At this point um, derrick is running camas connect academy, uh, as a program and they're doing their best to just kind of like piece it together. But when jeff did that, I immediately went into my room where kara was and said you'll never believe what happened, and I just broke down crying because it was like all the things that I've been through, all the all, all the travel, it all in that moment like made sense and like COVID was not easy. It was a confusing time. You know. There was all kinds of changes coming from Oregon and Washington, but to have like something that I wanted for so long become a reality, Well, and it was wild, wild, yeah, and and I'm sitting here listening to you and you know you had God told you to wait just wait just wait.
Speaker 1:So you're building this experience and then COVID comes and you're like the guy that knows how to piece this thing together, because you've been doing it for 12, almost 15 years. Yep, so, boy, it really sure does, you know, pay off. It just wait sometimes and listen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the the funny thing is, I mean it's it's really incredible because you were like right in the right spot. It could guide this district and, like you said, it was still hard, it was still confusing because so many things were changing so quickly and you know it was going to be two weeks and then it ended up being like two years and you know, and you know you have the experience to manage through that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And get to the point where you ended up right where you wanted to be. I mean, it really is incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would have never, if you had asked me back in my college days what a charter school was, I didn't know. You asked me what an alternative school was, or an alternative student. Like I had no idea. I thought I'd, you know, go to Black Miss high school, teach biology and coach basketball. And my journey was 100% different than that, but I mean more amazing than I could have ever imagined.
Speaker 2:I I would have never thought, you know that, um, I wouldn't have been able to be a superintendent because our school system grew so much that they were able to support me in that role, and that was kind of a dream of mine too. Um, but once I went there, once I did that, once I had the doctorate you know, this achiever in me is like, well, I've kind of checked all the boxes, um, but what I really wanted was to work in my own state and I would actually drive out to Eastern Oregon on the Columbia river, going over the bridge of the gods, and I'd just be crying and praying to God and then, like, I love Oregon, I love the work that we've been able to do there, but I really just like, where do you want me? And I never really did get released, even though I had applied for some other jobs that came up in canvas. I never really got clear anything until after that phone call with Jeff.
Speaker 1:And that's such a huge man that had to, just huge huge day in time for huge day in time, I mean that's crazy. And I it was it's really just life-changing life life-changing it was.
Speaker 2:It was kind of gut-wrenching like leaving sure sure, sure sure, because you built that thing, yeah, into a legitimate.
Speaker 1:You know, like you said, it was really just a disaster where nobody would think you could rise out of that, or you know, or even want to teach or be an administrator anymore. And then you built it up to, you know, over 3000 kids. Yeah. And that's a great story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It was tough to leave, but what I what I decided.
Speaker 2:You know, I had these convictions about how I was going to do this, that I wasn't just going to be, you know, up in the Portland area running the statewide school, like. I had the conviction to be in every region twice a year, so I'd go for a staff meeting and I'd go for a field trip, and so that's how I ended my, my, my career there as well, as I traveled the entire state over a week and I spent time with staff and students in each area and had this kind of this farewell tour, right. Um, and I think I've got this, uh quote that one of my teachers gave me uh, I believe it's from Gandhi. It's, um, not about something to the extent of not about how good you can be as a leader, it's about how many leaders you can create. And so all the people that I had grown that school with ended up. My main principal in Baker city became the superintendent. My main principal in Jean became the curriculum director. Another principal in the Portland area became the HR director, and so really, I had been able to create this system that was ongoing, and I think I believe I kind of looked to I think it's Steve jobs, or I don't know said that when a leader organization can't fall apart, there needs to be structures in place. There needs to be constant mentorship equipping people, listening to people, empowering people. So that's that's what I was able to do to be able to have this farewell tour and come to um what was ultimately like my dream job. You know, doing what I love to be an online administrator.
Speaker 2:Um, we ended up being at the district office the first year and we're still in the middle of covid we're masking and, um, we're trying to figure things out. It's completely different over here. The aLE legal structure is very different than charter law and so, um, you know it was hard work setting it up, getting it accredited, um, you know, going through getting NCAA certification, doing all the structure, writing the handbook. I mean, um, and at times I would look at my, my wife, and say, like gosh, I don't know how many more of these pushes I have in me to like open a school, start a school, build all the structure, build the website, like I had already done that with fossil and Paisley and with Baker and helped other schools, and like it's like, oh my gosh, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2:So I get to school, up and running, um, I've got two great full full-time years and then, uh, and then last spring, uh, kind of in the fall, we start getting these like conversations and updates that, hey, the budget doesn't look so good next year, we're going to have to make some cuts. And so, gary, I'm like living my dream. You know, I've got like a 10, 15 minute commute to work instead of driving six hours to Eastern Oregon.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm loving the school. There's a couple hundred kids in the school, things are going good, it's growing, it's filling up, um and so, but I've got, no, no, nothing new from God. So I'm like okay, this is where I'm supposed to be, um and so I think it was around February of last year that I received my RIF notice, so reduction in force and they were eliminating the online school principal job.
Speaker 2:They were also eliminating the project-based learning principal job in Camas and they were combining those roles because there was maybe 200 kids in the PBL school, the high school, and then 200 kids in the online school and that wasn't enough to support two full-time principals so that was again another I guess a bit of a gut check um for me, for kara, for our safety.
Speaker 2:But if we had learned anything listening to God, trusting in God I mean, we had been there before and so it really it was a trying time. But now I think that my community surrounded me, prayed for me Derek was a tremendous friend during that time and so it ended up working out that they do this we lose our jobs. They post the new job. I apply for it and I was told after I interviewed that I won every single section of the interview and in the 20 some odd years that the HR director has been involved with Camus, she's never seen an administrator. So I just crush every single section of the interview and I think that I had God not paired me in such a way through all the experiences that he had helped me with. No, I know how to grow a school. I know how to do budget. I know how to grow a school. I know how to do budget.
Speaker 2:I know how to do finance, all these things that God had given me in my life all these opportunities prepared me for that moment, and so I got that job and became the principal of Odyssey Middle School, Discovery High School and Camas Connect Academy, and at that point I think everyone just thought I was crazy. Probably still do. It's been another challenge, another growth opportunity. After being in online schools for so long. Now I'm in the building every day.
Speaker 1:And are all those? I don't know, I'm not. I was in vancouver school district, so are all those places in one spot or are you moving around?
Speaker 2:yeah, so odyssey uh middle school is in the old sharp building uh, right off of uh, I think it's Payne Road and kind of by QFC and then so that started in 2016. And then in 2018, they built Discovery High School. Odyssey Middle School has capacity for about 300, and that's how many kids are in it about 300. And Discovery High School has capacity 600, and there's only about 200, and so I am tasked with growing and maintaining the online school. Um, I've got an awesome associate principal, nicole o'rourke, and she um more or less oversees odyssey middle school, helps me with discovery and cca, and so it's the two of us and roughly 700 kids in these three programs. Um, and it's a lot of work. I really had to change my work hours, but being in person, it's something that I haven't had the experience of in the last 16 years since I was at North Clackamas.
Speaker 2:And so in a lot of ways that's a part of me, that I part of my resume and part of my experience and my skillset that I knew was missing. But it's been a tremendous year of growth and again it's been hard, but the lessons I've learned all along of hard work, communication, um, leaning on your community, leaning on your family, like that's allowing me to survive this crazy role because, um, you talk to most people, like most principals, are both of one school right.
Speaker 2:Not three. So, um, it's been a pretty big, crazy journey. Uh, and I guess I didn't talk a lot about marriage or kids. I talked a lot about work, but, um, now just I about the kids.
Speaker 2:Not being able to have kids and then being able to have kids really changes your perspective. I love those kids. I had the influence of my parents and so I was always really involved as a dad. I felt like that was important Changing diapers, doing all the things, taking night shifts. So raising them, watching them grow up through preschool and then getting into school and being able to go to Lackmiss Lake Elementary raising them with Kara was just um, amazing, amazing to watch them grow and, you know, fumble over words and then finally figure it out how to walk um all these things. And you know, looking back, we both wanted kids so badly that we would kind of do anything, anything for them, and I think you know they had an awesome time in Lackamas K through six.
Speaker 2:And when it came time for middle school, we knew that middle school in the nineties, you know there were some, there were some tough things and we knew that times had changed and, specifically, times had changed a lot during COVID, and so at that point we decided to enroll the kids in Agape Christian Academy and that was just. It was a tough choice because I love Kamma School District, I love the community. I came back here in 2011 to raise my kids and have them go to canvas school district. So that was a tough choice for me but I think, given my kids and where they're at in their walk and just what's going on in the world and with public schools, at that point it felt like the right choice and it continues to be the right choice. My kids are growing up in this amazing environment.
Speaker 2:They have all these opportunities to do hip-hop, dance and lyrical and be able to participate in sports. So that's been pretty amazing, and Kara works there part-time.
Speaker 1:Have you ever been questioned about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gets a little tense sometimes. I think out of all the administrators in camas school district, there's maybe a handful that are are christians, and I am the only one, my knowledge, that has their kids in private school, and so there's been a little tension there. There's a little tension there, um, and I'll tell anybody that listens um, you know kind of why I made that, made that choice, uh, but for us it was, it was more about raising them up in the way that they'll go, and that was our way of doing.
Speaker 1:That was just and that sure, that was our way of doing. That was just, I mean I get the, I I mean you can understand the rub, you get it. You're a big boy, you, you understand it. But it's it's really what's best for your kids at this moment yeah, and, and that's the thing, and I and it doesn't take away from cam a school district or public school district, or or in a public school or whatever.
Speaker 2:It's just what's right for for our family, for your family, for your kids and I think each parent has to look at the options that are available and make the choice that works for their family, and that's being the principal of three choice schools.
Speaker 2:That's the walk that I walk every single day every week um, if I've got a kid in camas connect that says you know, gosh, I just really miss being in person. Then I say, well, what you're doing here, let's get you back in person. And so that's kind of the conversations I have with parents all the time is, you need to look at the options and the choices and make the best choice for you, um, and so that's what we did with our kids.
Speaker 1:Did you have a a bit of a battle, like, did you know that that was the right thing to do but still fought it? Did you feel anxious about it but still fought it? Did you feel anxious about it, like, even if I'm just asking, you may not have felt this way, but knowing you're going to do that, did you still feel anxious and like, I don't know, because that's really got to be a tough spot, it's a for you it's a tough spot and even in you know, you asked if there's like some tension there.
Speaker 2:So even in admin meetings they're like oh, dan's kids are in private schools. That mean he gets a dock and pay, you know, so there's. There's like some tension there.
Speaker 2:So even in admin meetings they're like oh, dan's kids are in private schools, that means he gets a dock and pay, you know, so there's there's been jokes and there's been statements and and um, there and it's been tough Like it's been tough on me, but I think in our, in our life and our walk, we've we've learned to trust and and, just like I could kind of see that things were changing with, with baker and going to camas, the same thing could be true during that last year that they were in lacmas. You know, like one of our good friends, katie case, was getting ready to go be a teacher at aca, had been subbing in camas school district and actually subbing for at Kamis Connect Academy, and so we kind of saw it started seeing those signs that it was just this is the way it was going to go, and a lot of our friends at the time that were in Black Miss or other schools ended up enrolling their kids in ACA. So it just it wasn't just our family, it was other families, it wasn't just our family, it was other families and so, um, I mean it continues to be a hard spot for us but, um, I think the opportunities that the kids have got, the attention that they've got being in a smaller school setting. You know, sky ridge and liberty both have about 700 kids. Odyssey has 300.
Speaker 2:My online middle school has 50. Um. Agape christian has about 60 70. My online middle school has 50. Agape Christian has about 60, 70 kids in middle school. So it's just a small school environment, noticed, they're appreciated, they're loved on and it's a Christ-centered environment. Right, yeah, and so uh.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's probably, you know, I'm guessing number one or two reason why they, why they go to that school, it's. It is interesting, though, that you um I don't know if the fitting is the right word, but you touched on it that you are the, you know, the principal of choice schools. That, yep, you know. So it's like, well, this is our choice, this is what we're gonna do, and this is, you know, the principle of choice schools. That, yep, you know. So it's like, well, this is our choice, this is what we're gonna do, and this is, you know, we're believers, and so we're gonna put them in a place that will, has you know, show some value in that, and like, that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Christian school yep, so that's our choice, yeah, and I think, when it doesn't take anything away from, no, the school district or your schools or anything like that, it's just yeah, although I will say that when we were looking at high school, which is next year, um uh, it was a family decision that they wouldn't go to a school where I was principal, which is unfortunate because I'm principal of two of the Kamas schools two of the Kamas high schools.
Speaker 2:So, um, we did look at Kamas high school and then ultimately decided to keep the kids in ACA for the first two years of high school and then see if running start might work for them. But, you know, ultimately it really did. I mean, the Christ environment was important but, also the opportunities of being able to be in drama and hip hop and for Adelaide, just a smaller like you.
Speaker 1:Like you said, it's just. You know the the the focus is on the kids can be more, not that. I'm sure teachers in the campus school district do everything they can. So I mean you know that you're you're part of the school district. But when you have you know what 70 kids in middle school, you just your kids are going to get more attention.
Speaker 2:They're going to. They're going to get more attention and and have these amazing opportunities. You know, there was a couple of things that happened, like we went to a girls basketball game at Camas high school and the sports have progressed to such a point where you just have to be an elite, elite athlete to participate and I love my kids and they're they're amazing and they're athletic, but they've had so many different interests they have never. You know, we haven't sent them to. You know, club sports and all this and that.
Speaker 2:And so I don't think my kids could really do sports at camas high school and that's a good point they can, they can, they can play and you know these kind of this little person, school league and there's opportunities for them to do volleyball and now they they cut 40 kids from the volleyball team this year at camas. So it's funny that, being in a smaller school, they actually will have more opportunities. Um, as well as that environment, it's so important to us right, right, yeah, that makes sense yeah so.
Speaker 2:So I guess at this point you know, cara and I have been married uh over 20 years and I've raised these amazing kids together. The kids are now out there babysitting other kids and they're very responsible. David just got a 4.0, adelaide got a 3.97. They're amazing kids their own way. I do. Daddy daughter dates pretty regularly with them yeah we hike as a family um.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty incredible life yeah, I uh appreciate that about you with the, with your girls, because we have two girls as well and, um, I really valued, uh, the time that I had with them and it was, you know, um, really in. I was very intentional, you know, with both of them, with the amount of time with Shelly and I. Both were very intentional with them. You, you just see it when you invest that way and um, it's something my my uncle told me once, um, it was pretty intentional, but we were on a walk one day and and his um oldest daughter, my cousin um, played club soccer and stuff, and he lives down in slow down in California, san Luis, san Luis Obispo, yep, and they would do club but they would have to drive, sometimes hours. I mean, you know, you've heard that and he's like I just got so much window time with them and so I just kind of like I was doing that, but he kind of put a name to it and so anytime I talk to dads, that's one of the biggest.
Speaker 1:You know, the biggest things is that even you know one of the things I don't know if you remember, but I talked, I don't like two or three years ago, for you know, a father's day video for um. Yeah, for grace, yep, and that was the number one thing is for dads is just, you know, chill out. You don't have to be intense, you know, have a good sense of humor with your kids, relax a little bit, and um really value that window time when it's seems to be like you know, this mundane or, you know, task that you have to do. Just include them. It doesn't have to always be date, you know. It doesn't have to be ice cream or it's could just be going to the store.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And going to the store can be an adventure. Yeah, you know, and it's funny. Into the store can be an adventure. Yeah, you know, and it's funny, me and Michaela have, uh, still a joke once in a while if we end up going to the store she's 23 now, so we don't make those visits as often. But one joke she always asked me for stuff and I would, you know, have to say no, or think about it and so as she got older, it kind of became, you know, a running joke.
Speaker 1:What I think people sometimes don't understand is those little things like that. You know those little things that you think don't mean anything or they're kind of throw away. You know your kids remember that stuff and it it's a memory. It's like, uh, yeah, maybe not a core memory that you know. That's like the thing now is, you know kids have these core memories, but it's still, you know, this memory, this little joke that we had just between the two of us yeah that brings you closer together oh your kids.
Speaker 1:So it's like that's my, my biggest message to the moms and dads. But since I'm a dad to dad is, even if it just seems monotonous or it's like yeah you know, whatever you just do it, Cause it's time you know, like you don't waste time.
Speaker 2:It's time and I, I think, the other other thing too, doesn't always have to be a a park visit or, uh, you know, an event yeah it's just time and I think the other thing too is um, as a parent, I I was honestly surprised that sometimes I tend to be a little bit more of the strict parent. But one thing, a practice that I really try, is whenever a kid asks to hang out or watch a movie or play a game, I try so hard to always say yes, because I know that my kids are teenagers they're going into high school, they're going to start driving, they got cell phones for Christmas. Like time is moving fast. And if a kid comes up and says, hey, I want to hug, or, um, I want to play a board game, or will you watch a movie with me, uh, I almost always like what else could I be doing right now Other than that? Right now.
Speaker 2:And so I I try super hard with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's in. You know, listen, I have not been perfect. Sure, I don't want to. Neither one of us want to paint ourselves perfect I, they have also their dad wounds that I've that, that I've, you know, created and we've. And I think the other thing that we really tried to do with them is when they went through stuff, because they did go through stuff when they're younger. We'd just be really open with them If their friends were going through stuff or they're going through boy stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We took a lot of time, or if they got in trouble. We still joke that when they got in trouble there was not a lot of punishment. They just had to listen to us talk a lot and that was their punishment. That's by lecture about the brain and a little. You know psychology like base levels, like I'm.
Speaker 1:I don't want to pretend I'm a therapist, but like base level stuff that you just learn, yeah, by reading or listening or whatever you know. We we took a lot of time to, you know, explain stuff like sierra had a an issue with this boy.
Speaker 1:Um, I think she was a freshman, so a long time ago like 10 years ago now, which is crazy um, where you know it was a very aggravating situation. But we also were, we were very intentional in turning it into a learning experience and you know, I explained to you know this young man was very manipulative and and kind of you know that whole thing where he was trying like trying to isolate her from other people and which is not healthy yeah.
Speaker 1:So we really sat down and kind of really talked that through and explained like and I and I didn't like the kid was super irritating and I was angry, but I also didn't want to just sit around and call him a jerk yeah I'm like he, he's probably he's doing these things that I'm not even sure he understands. He's doing like the, the manipulation and and and like he. Just you know he also had kind of a crappy you know um life growing up and so there's a reason.
Speaker 1:So. So basically trying to find and I'm trying to talk this into myself too, because this person is hurting my daughter that you know they were learning, or they were learning what they knew and what they saw, like you know, basically trying to instill some empathy along with this thing there had to be some boundaries.
Speaker 1:There had to be some discipline. But also we're going to have some empathy for this person that really probably has no idea what he's doing. He's a master manipulator, but I don't know if he even knows what that means or yeah, it comes out of like a place of hurt right that and yeah, like you said, probably a rough childhood and and and it was one one of the things that he could control yeah or try to control because, he had no control anywhere else.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:So it was a lot of explain, like really breaking things down, and I think when you can do that at a level that they understand, I think they've grown up with more empathy. Or when they've been hurt by friends, I think they've grown up with more empathy. Or when they've been hurt by friends they've. You know, Michaela had a friend that she just had to cut off eventually and I think it was very, it was very painful for her, but she also knew the story of where she came from, and so there was some empathy. But also she had to create a boundary. That boundary was no more and that so that happens in life.
Speaker 2:I think we all want to give everyone under chances, but at some point you do have to put up some boundary and say, like I got to keep, I got to be safe, my family's got to be safe.
Speaker 1:It involves, like your kids Right.
Speaker 2:And they'll need to know that lesson like in the future too, and even with coworkers and things like that because, you're going to encounter people that have been hurt in this world, and I had one thing that I guess I've observed is that sometimes the hurt of this world is so much that in this life they may never heal those wounds. And a lot of people spend a lot of time, you know, masking or coping with those wounds, and then it's always unfortunate, of course, if, like they end up, like you know, being interested in your daughter and then sharing those wounds with your kid that you care about so much.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, yeah, it was an interesting. It was an interesting time and we probably let it go longer than we should have, but it was still a lot of good learning and she was able to learn at that young age what to look for and not look for, and so did we. Yeah, and I tell people a lot now too. Is you know, the? The smartphones started? Like I always tell people, it was like the wild West for us with our kids. It was like there were no restrictions like there are now. We had no clue how it was going to affect their brain. Oh yeah, because that was like 2007.
Speaker 1:So there were just a couple more years and they were getting phones and I mean, you know, there were apps and social media was was just around that time, and and so that was probably one of the mistakes that we made, but also it was just so new.
Speaker 2:It was, it was so brand like literally.
Speaker 1:you know, facebook was like 2000,. What Six, five, six, seven in colleges, and so we just didn't know how to handle it. So I try to give us a break, but I tell parents now shut those phones down, like I have restrictions, Like you have them all, all those tools that we wish we had. You have implement them.
Speaker 2:Oh, a hundred percent and they still.
Speaker 1:They would not have gotten phones, probably until high school, most likely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we just went there with the kids. But of course, I've been an online administrator for a long time. I've worked with a lot of technology. Yeah, I know how to lock down a device, but I think what it is is, it's a. It's the whole theme of life right now is teach them, raise them up in the way they will go on when they leave, they won't depart from it is um, as they grow, as they mature, I'm giving them, you know, a little bit more, and a little bit more on the phone.
Speaker 2:But at this point they can call, they can text, they can listen to Spotify and they can do the Bible app and the calculator. Other than that, I have everything turned off no internet, no downloading apps, and so even with that, though, I mean they're texting fiends. I'm pretty sure that they at least quadruple, if not more, than amount of texts I send. They'll send me five texts. I'll send one back, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, yeah, for young people, texting it's like a single thought is a single text. Yes, and there's many thoughts, so there's lots of single texts.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then it was a joyous day when we taught the kids about gifts. They're like no way we can put our words to pictures, to our words.
Speaker 1:You know, it was really funny. I do another podcast with a friend and we just talked about this how we're actually um regressing from writing back to pictures. Like we've regressed back to drawing pictures in a cave, like that's how we're communicating. Like we're, we're going backwards, we're not advancing. I think some people and you're an, you're a teacher- yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean you could say no, that I mean that's just the language now, because there's an argument for that, like that's just what we're doing. But we kind of peeled it back and it was like we're we're drawing pictures in a cave at this point. What are we? Doing.
Speaker 2:It. You know it's so interesting. I think there's a lot of um pendulums in life and they swing back and forth, but I I find great joy and pride when um I answer a whole email with just the right emoticon. I mean, I do get like 150 emails a day that I need to answer or do something with or attach a document or a transcript. So if I can get one of those with just uh, you know, kind of sideways face, with the tongue hanging out like yeah, let's do it it's.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's really funny if you think about technology and where it's headed, and AI and all of that and our language. I didn't even mention this in my other podcasts, but in this period of language that we're in, we're actually going so far back to drawing pictures in a case. I mean, really that's what it is. It just happens to be on this very advanced tool that we have in our hands, but it's really kind of interesting.
Speaker 2:It is very interesting and I think the wise prophet Wally had lots to say to us. So if you think, if you think about the premise of that movie, like yeah, we basically trashed earth, went to space, nobody walks around anymore, everyone's overweight on some kind of space cart, and you know, if you, if you think and they can't really do anything, so like if we just let ai do everything, we're gonna regress if we don't get out there and move around if we just kind of access everything I mean we'll like micro evolve.
Speaker 2:If we do that like, we'll like yeah yeah, that's an interesting thought we in a lot of ways we already are.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, if you're not intentionally going out and exercising in this world, you don't have to. You don't have to walk to the grocery store, you don't have to get in your car, you don't have to go to the mall.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You really I mean if you really want to just isolate you can 100, oh yeah, isolate you can work from home. You can never leave your house, uh, and so, yeah, I mean it, we're in heart disease and I mean obesity. All kinds of things are are already out there, yeah yeah, yeah, that's interesting and I love, I love technology.
Speaker 1:I want to understand ai or uh. But there's this other part of me that my wife and a friend of mine the same friend that I do the podcast with uh, one of the things that I I joke about is you know, I have all of my cds still uh-huh that I grew up getting since 1987, all the way up to what 2008, when I could stream 2009 whenever that was.
Speaker 2:But do you have songs from Napster?
Speaker 1:No, it never did that Listen that was one of the things that, um, I did was uh cause I subscribed to CCM way back in the day.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And there was. There was always uh, every once in a while there were articles about is it right to copy cds? Or whatever, and the one thing that I never did was rip music, uh, for free, like I never, because there was um. There were places where I lacked integrity, but that was the one place where I'm like there is a lot of people behind this and so I always, always paid for music and I would make sure choice.
Speaker 1:I would kind of make sure that it was okay to you know, because then I got into you know writing cd, you know putting music on cds and that was legal and and all of that and um to make mix cds.
Speaker 1:And then there's now it's just streaming but um, yeah, but I saved all those because I'm like you know and we were very apprehensive before we moved here about um, all of that. We watched a documentary about um uh, what's his name? That ran amazon, jeff bezos, and in the programs that they've come out with and community, you know, the ring and the police partnership and the pharmacy and the stores and the insurance and it kind of freaked me and shelly out like shelly jokes that she thinks he's the antichrist and it's like um, we really like it got into my head a little bit. But I'm always like I'm saving some stuff because if the grid goes down, I'm I'm gonna have some stuff that we're gonna be able to survive with. Now I'm not a like a prepper or anything like that, but I was.
Speaker 2:I confess you was, I was or you were no no no, it's past tense, so so you were a prepper I, I was and and like. Here's the thing is, um, since I was a kid, I would always get this vision. It was, it was interesting, it was like me, um, like leading a group of people through like the forest. And no, when I was growing up it would be about like the Russians, cause of like coming out of the cold war in the eighties and that kind of stuff, Whenever we were like playing guns yeah, red Dawn and all that.
Speaker 2:Yes, Eating deer and all that Um, but yeah, I just I kept kind of getting those, those visions and like around 2013,. I just like pressed into them and I, I did all those things and I got all, all the beans and the coffee and the and the guns and it. You know, honestly, like it was kind of exciting because, like I like being prepared, I like backpacking, I like being outside.
Speaker 2:And so like, yeah, it's kind of cool, like like let's, let's buy the camo backpack in the go bag and yeah, the go bag and the 30-06 and let's see how quick we can get it into the car. And and I did all that in 2013- and you would read the news and this is.
Speaker 2:You know, at that time brock obama's president right, right right you know, like I'm sure lots of people thought maybe he was, yeah, maybe the antichrist or something, and so, um, it would. And then you know you had just gone through the great recession or whatever. In 2008, 2009, I've got kids.
Speaker 2:Now I'm like so I went a little cuckoo in 2013 and did all the things, so I've got some nice beans and rice from 2013, if stuff ever goes down. But what was interesting is one of my least favorite bible verses is in matthew and it says don't borrow trouble from tomorrow, for each day has enough worry on its own. I spend a lot of time worrying about the future, about revelation, about creation like I go through these things and what was interesting is, you know there would be this like proper website.
Speaker 2:Be like oh my gosh, it's going tomorrow yeah stuff's hitting the fan all this stuff in 2020. You're like, oh my gosh, it's really happening. And then you know what happened is is nothing like it's always nothing, it's like there's nothing new under the sun I mean it's the same stuff the the world didn't end. The economy's still doing it's who knows what, and you're like, okay, um, I, I got better yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I I've never gone that far, but it's like you know, at&t went down the other day it's like the grid is really seems sensitive to me, very fragile, yeah, and so the only thing I've prepped is I've kept all my cds, which I don't even know what I'd play them on at this point. I have have my car play CDs.
Speaker 2:You could make some armor out of those CDs. Things got real interesting. I play a video game where they actually make a gun. I think it's Far Cry 6 or maybe 5. I'm not sure, anyways and they shoot CDs out of the gun at high velocities, so I'm pretty sure that you could come up with something like that. That's great.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, you should probably wind this down. Yeah, usually the last question I ask is or yeah, it's a a question, but a statement from you is you know, you? You look back on your life and all the things that you've gone through with your wife and your family in the schools and, and you know what is the one thing, that one message, the one thing that you would want people to take away from um listening to this podcast.
Speaker 2:Uh, I would say, based on my life story, that God is there and God is real. I think, if you look at all the things that I've been through, that's for me ultimately what it comes down to. I think everybody at some point has to answer that question who is God and what is he to me? Because I wouldn't be the person I am, I probably wouldn't be married, I wouldn't have kids, I wouldn't have this job, I wouldn't be living in Camas Like who knows where and what I would be and who I would be if it didn't have that.
Speaker 1:You didn't have that compass.
Speaker 2:I didn't have that compass Like all through life. It's guided me as a parent, as a leader, as a husband. So for me, like that's my thing, and when I have my doubts and I have my my moments and I, I just push into the Bible and the more I learn about it, the more I understand, but yet I understand nothing and all I know is that God is there, God is good and changes lives.
Speaker 1:Good, all right. Well, thank you so much for your time. Yeah, and I really appreciate it. I love getting to know you more. Ah and um, uh, we'll see you at our next uh breaking bread yes, I look forward to our next eatery all right, thanks a bunch you bet, all right, okay.
